The Leslie Flint Educational Trust

WEB: www.leslieflint.com                  EMAIL: leslieflinttrust@outlook.com

 
 
 

A Scotswoman from the time of Mary Ivan...


The Mary Ivan séance

Recorded: August 15th 1966


“I did not think at first that I was dead...”


George Woods asks Dr Marshall if his friend can come to the séances, 
then Mary Ivan speaks for the first time.

She talks about her first impressions of the Afterlife,

and thinks she is in hospital at first -

until her long-dead sister arrives to meet her.


Mary visits a garden where souls can reunite with their loved ones,
and describes the clean air and beautiful surroundings of her new world.

Mary describes the home she always dreamed of,

where she now lives with her husband

and even helps at the 'hospital' where she first arrived...


Note: This vintage audio is a composite of various enhanced excerpts.

 
 
 

Please read the transcript below as you listen...



Present: George Woods, Betty Greene, Leslie Flint.

Communicators: Dr Charles Marshall, Mary Ivan.



Woods:
Dr Marshall...


Marshall:
Yes?

Woods:
We have a friend, who is helping us a great deal with this work...His name is, um...

Greene:
Bernard Hutton.

Woods:
Hutton...Bernard Hutton.
And we hope to bring him along. Not at out regular sittings, but in between the sittings, sort of...
Will it be alright? He's very... we can recommend him, he's very sincere.

Marshall:
Anyone that you recommend of course is alright. You should know your friends and you should know their genuine interest. Of course, by all means, bring your friend. We shall be delighted.

Greene:
Well he wanted us to ask you first Dr Marshall before he came. He didn't want to upset any vibrations.


Marshall:
Oh, it's a joy to have the opportunity of someone as sincere as yourselves. We shall be delighted.

Woods:
Oh thank you Dr Marshall.

Greene:
Thank you very much.

Woods:
He wouldn't come without you... we give him the verification that he could come.


Marshall:
Good. I'm so happy about that.

Woods:
Yes.

Marshall:
We do everything we can.

Woods:
Yes, thank you.


Greene:
Thank you Dr Marshall, very much.
How are you?

Marshall:
I'm very well of course. Thank you for asking. Although, in a sense, you can well imagine we're very well over here. It would be very odd if we weren't.

Greene:
[Laughs]


Woods:
Yes, quite. Mmm...

Marshall:
Wouldn't be much point in dying, if it was going to be worse than the Earth, or as bad.


Woods:
Yes, quite.

Marshall:
No one need fear dying. It's a great relief.

Greene:
Yes.

Woods:
Yes.

Marshall:
To get out of the turmoil and the strife and the unsettled atmosphere of your world is a great joy.


Greene:
I'm sure it must be.


Woods:
Yes, oh yes.


Marshall:
Anyway, just hold on please...


Greene:
Thank you Dr Marshall.


Woods:
Thank you Dr Marshall for coming through...


[Break in recording]


Mary:
[I'm not quite] sure if you can hear now what I'm saying to you.


Greene:
Yes, we can thank you.

Woods:
Yes, very well indeed.


Mary:
I've heard about you.


Greene:
Have you?

Woods:
Have you?

Mary:
You're Mr Woods.

Woods:
Yes.

Mary:
And you're Mrs Greene.

Greene:
That's right, yes.

Mary:
How do you do?

Greene:
How do you do?
You're Scotch aren't you?

Mary:
Aye. How did you know that?

Greene:
By your accent!

Mary:
I'm not even aware that I'm speaking with an accent. Must be this thing here...

Woods:
[Unintelligible]


Mary:
Your no Scot yourself?


Greene:
No.


Mary:
You don't look Scot... you don't sound so Scot...
You're no a Scot really are you then?

Greene:
All my mother's people are Scots, yes.

Mary:
Ah! On your mother's side of the family?

Greene:
Yes, yes.

Mary:
How long have you left Scotland, it must be many years?

Greene:
I've not been up there since...

Mary:
Ah, I thought as much, probably. And you've no got an accent at all.

Greene:
No.

Mary:
And you're Mr Greene... Mr Woods, I mean?

Woods:
Yes.

Mary:
That's a strange combination.

Greene:
[Laughter]


Woods:
[Laughter]

Mary:
Woods and Greene...

Woods:
Well, I am really, because my...


Mary:
I did not mean you, just yourself, but the names...

Greene:
oh yes, we get...[unintelligible]... occasionally.


Woods:
We do. You see, my mother was Irish... my grandmother was Irish. My mother was...

Flint:
[Coughing]

Woods:
...and my father came from the Scots...

Mary:
Oh, quite an interesting combination.

Woods:
Yes, slightly yes.

Greene

[Laughing]

Mary:
No wonder you're a strange man!

Greene:
Oh!
[Laughing]

Woods:
I am, yes.
[Laughing]

Mary:
I'm teasing...

Greene:
Are you going to give us a nice talk today?

Mary:
Ah! I'm no quite sure. I'm not really a talker myself, not from the point of view that some of the people that come here, no doubt, are very much more experienced in that sort of thing, than me.

Greene:
Can you...

Mary:
I've been here quite a number of years...


Greene:
Yes?

Mary:
And I've no regrets and I would not want to come back into your side of life to live.


Greene:
I bet you wouldn't.


Woods:
No.

Mary:
Oh, it's a nice way to be able to come here like that. No one need fear of dying now. It is a wonderful thing.


Greene:
Can you give us your name friend, please?

Mary:
My name is Mary.


Greene:
Mary?


Mary:
Mary Ivan.

Woods:
Mary Ivan?

Mary:
Aye. It's no a real Scot name that. It's not a real Scottish name.

Greene:
Um, uh, can you... where did you live Mary?


Mary:
I had a son, Ian. He's here with me now.

Greene:
Oh well...

Mary:
And it makes me very happy. Aye. I lost my husband many years ago. I say lost, but I found him over here of course. So I couldn't have lost him could I? But he died when I was a young woman. I was only about twenty-seven.


Greene:
Oh dear...

Mary:
Aye and the wee bairn*, you know.

*wee bairn = small child

Greene:

Yes.

Mary:
Aye. I met him over here when I died. He met me. And my son too, he died quite young.

Greene:
Where did you live Mary, in Scotland?

Mary:
Ah, I lived in several places actually. I was always moving around in my early years. I lived at one time just outside Glasgow and another time, for a number of years I lived in Dundee.


Greene:
Oh yes?


Mary:
But that's going back a long time. It's going back about 1890 now. It's a good many years. I was in the service when I was a wee one, for many years. I come from poor family.


Greene:
Mary, can you tell us something about, you know, how you passed over? Were you bewildered when you passed over?

Mary:
Aye, I was a wee bit. But somehow, I don't know, whether it was my religious background - I was very religious as a girl - maybe it did not frighten me. I was here and I suppose I was glad to get out of it. But, um, it was no different to the ways of what I expected, although I suppose I had got a [unintelligible] idea. But somehow it all seemed so natural. 


I think that's the wonderful part about it when you come over here, everything's so natural. People expect all sorts of things if they expect anything at all. You know, sort of strange or religious in a kind of way, but it's not. It's just as if you... well it's like waking up and finding yourself in another country. But it's not exactly strange because you're surrounded by people that you've known - people that have been very close and very dear to you.


My Mama was here. She was a sweet soul. She lived to be quite a good age. But you know, she was a very religious woman too. She died only a year before me.


Greene:
But Mary, how did you... how did you find yourself? What sort of conditions...


Mary:
Ah, I woke up and found myself in a kind of place like a hospital. I thought, 'well what's this?' Because I was in my own house and... you know, I was sick-a-bed and everything. And I had a sister who was looking after me. And I remember waking up here and I was in a kind of ward place in the hospital.

Greene:
Yes?

Mary:
But very nice and very clean, and everything seemed so fresh and airy, and everyone seemed to be so efficient and quiet and peace, and the sun or whatever it was - at least I thought it was the sun then - was shining through the windows now, and everywhere around was pretty and clean. There were pictures hanging on the walls and somehow it seemed like a very special kind of hospital.


And I thought, well, this is strange. And then a very sweet woman came to me and said, 'You know,' she says, 'you just have to rest a little while and then you’ll soon be all right, once you sort of, sort yourself out and get to know things. And your people will be coming in to see you in a wee while.' And I thought, 'This is strange.' I felt sure I was at home in my own bed, and here I am in a hospital, so I must have been unconscious and they must have brought me into hospital. I did not think at first that I was dead.


And then I could see, after a wee while, other souls lying around and there was a sweet little lass next to me in a bed, a little blonde child. Pretty child she was, and she was sitting up there and she was chatting away and then she showed me one or two things that she had; a dolly and some books and things. And she said, 'Isn't it nice being here?' She says, 'I'm so happy!'
I said, 'Aye, it's very nice, but what’s wrong with you?'


She says, 'Oh, I got diphtheria.'
I says, 'Well you don’t look like as if you’ve got diphtheria. You look as fresh as a daisy, and your cheeks and everything are bright and cheerful.'

You know, I could not think there was anything wrong with the wee lassie. And I said, 'Well how long have you been here?'
She says, 'I’ve only just come.' She says, 'I’m very happy though.'
I said, 'I can see that.'


Anyway, then I saw my sister coming towards me. And I was so surprised because, you know, I had this sister and she died very young, when I was about twelve. We called her Kate. And I thought, 'this is strange. Kate’s not here. Kate’s dead.' And there she was. And she came to me and she'd got a great big bunch of flowers in her arms. Beautiful flowers they were, fresh flowers with the dew on.

And she said, 'Here, I brought you these and we're so glad that you’ve come.' And she says, 'Mother’s coming soon, and also Pa.'

I says 'No,' I said 'That’s not possible.' I said, 'In any case, how are you getting in here, you know. You’re no here; you’re dead.'

She says, 'Oh, don't be silly,' she says, 'I’m dead all right and so are you!'
I says, 'What do you mean, I’m dead?'
She says, 'You’re dead.'
I says, 'Nooo, it’s not possible.' I said, 'I’m very much alive. I’m in hospital. But how did you get in? Did anyone see you come through the door?'
She says, 'Aye, they all saw me come through the door because they’re all dead that are here.'

I says, 'I don’t get this at all.'

And the wee little one, she sat looking at me in the next bed, and she says, 'Aye?' She says, 'Is that right? Are we dead and the lady? The lady,' she said, 'is she really dead too?'
So I said, 'Well, she’s my sister and she’s dead. And if she’s dead, then we must be dead, but we’re alive. I said, 'I don’t understand this.'

So my sister said, 'We’ve come to fetch you.'
I said, 'What do you mean, fetch me? You have to get permission from the hospital for me to leave the bed. But I must say I feel so well, I've never felt so good in my life.'
She says, 'Of course you’re all right. There’s nothing wrong with you at all. Only in your mind. Get that out of your mind. You’re no sick.'
Anyway, she says, 'I’ll see the lady that’s in charge of this ward.'
Anyway, after a while, there was a conflab* went on between them and I was allowed to get up.

*conflab = private discussion

And I said, 'Well what about my clothes?'
And my sister laughed, she said, 'You don’t need to worry about those. You’ve got them on.' 
I says, 'What do you mean I’ve got them on?' And I looked at myself and there I was, I was dressed. I could not get this at all, because I did not remember putting any clothes on. And I did not remember bringing any clothes.


And there I was standing beside the bed in a beautiful gown. It was...was a pale blue and long, with a sash and lots of little lace things around the neck. I thought, 'Well I know, I don’t understand this at all.' And my hair was all combed and nice.


And my sister laughed and she said, 'That’s all right, I helped you to dress, but you didn’t know that.' She says, 'I helped you do your hair too, by my thoughts.'
I said, 'Well how’d you do that?' I said, 'Do you think I'll be able to do things by thoughts?'

So she said, 'Yes, of course you will. Take a little time to get accustomed to it, but once you realise that, by your thoughts, you can achieve all the things that you want to do.'

I said, 'I don’t understand.'
She said, 'That’s all right. You remember when I was a wee lassie and I used to strum on the piano? And I always wanted to play and I used to get bad tempered and stamp and all the rest of it, because my fingers wouldn’t do the right things?'She says, 'Now I can play beautifully. And I do it now by concentration and because I want to do it and because the power makes it possible for me to do it.'


I said, 'Do you think that’s so?'
She says, 'Aye,' she says, 'that’s so.' Anyway, she says, 'Come, we’ll go now. We’ll go and see Mama and the others.'

I said, 'But I thought you said Mama was coming.'
So she says, 'Oh, she’ll probably be downstairs.'
I thought, 'Well, I don’t understand this. It all seems so strange.'

And we went down a beautiful staircase. And it was just as if it was made of marble. It was beautiful. And there were all sorts of interesting people walking about, and all looking so fit and well and healthy. And everywhere there seemed to be, I don’t know, as if the whole place has been so well cared for. It was so clean.


Greene:
Go on Mary, this is awfully interesting.


Woods:
Very interesting.

Mary:
Aye, and we went down the stairs and out this, sort of, portico or whatever you call it, down some more steps into a beautiful garden. And it was as if, I don’t know, I’ve never been to these posh places, because I never was able to do that sort of thing on Earth, but I'm told it's not unlike you’d see in France in some of these beautiful gardens that they have with the fountains playing. And there were all sorts of people. Children too, running and playing. And there were grown-ups, of course, and there were... everyone seemed to be fit and well.


And then I thought, 'how odd. None of these people seem out of place and yet I feel so out of place.'

'I suppose they’ve been here a long time,' I said to my sister.

She said, 'No, only just this last few days as you term time, and they’re just becoming acclimatised to everything and they’re waiting for their friends. They’re waiting for their relations. This is what we call the ‘reception place’ where people come, quite often, not all, but quite a lot of people, until they’re sort of acclimatised to the new conditions of life. And their friends begin to arrive and then they come and, eventually they’ll go away.

'Usually, they go to live with their wife or their husband or perhaps their mother and father if they not married. Or at least the people that they love most. They are the ones that invariably wait in the garden and wait for them to come out, because then they know that they've awakened. Of course, usually someone like myself, in your case, goes in to break the ice, as you might say, you know.'


Ah, it’s very wonderful. Do you know, no one need fear dying because it’s the most wonderful thing. It’s the most exciting thing that could ever happen to anyone. No one need ever to worry about it. Everything here is so real, so natural. Everyone is so, I don’t know, full of love. And there's no hatred and no sort of intolerance and everyone's so patient, especially with those who are new and fresh, and everyone wants to help. It’s a wonderful way of life.


Greene:
And did you meet your people Mary?


Mary:
Aye, eventually I did. Yes, and eventually, I went to live with my mother, and eventually after that, my husband.


Greene:
How did you meet your husband? How did you, sort of...

Mary:
Well he was away - this may sound odd - but he was away and he was doing some special work, I found out afterwards. But it was to do... to do with some war that was going on somewhere, in Africa... South Africa or something like that I think. And he was helping the wounded and the dying and, anyway, when he was free he came to my mother's place and then, eventually, we lived in his house, which was a pretty wee place... very small, but very nice. 


It's the sort of house that we'd often talked about that we would have liked, you know. A little old-fashioned place with beams and rafters and a pretty little garden. And he was, evidently, very keen on gardening. Not that he did on Earth, because it wasn't possible and we hadn't got a garden, but here, he became very interested and tends his flowers.


But you know, he'd been doing this work, helping these soldiers in this South African War, which I suppose I'd been ill for some months and I may have vaguely heard about this war, but I had no recollection of it until he told me, that this dreadful business had been going on. Of course, there's been worse wars and he's been doing a lot of rescue work and I go [unintelligible] and do nursing. I've been helping souls, latter years, in what you call, or we call, the reception stations, as I've told you.


Greene:
Yes...

Mary:
...and I find it very interesting work. I meet all sorts of very interesting people and I'm able to talk to them and help them to sort of... adjust themselves to their new way of life and their new thoughts. It's very essential that people should eradicate all the old ideas and thoughts, you know and become more and more, as it were, adjusted and more attuned to a different way of life and a different vibration and condition of life.


It's all very interesting you know, our work. I would hate to be in a place where there was nothing to do.


Woods:
What...what happened to the little girl that was next to you?

Mary:
Oh, I presume, I don't know, but I presume that her people came to collect her eventually. But she had definitely only been here a day or two. But, um, evidently there was a reason why she had to stay a little while. There always is of course.

Greene:
And how did your son get on Mary?

Mary:
Oh, he got on very well, very well indeed and I see him quite a lot.

Greene:
Uh-huh...

Woods:
What is your world like, uh, Mary?

Mary:
Oh what a question! What a question.

 
It's so varied that, really, you could not depict and describe much of it in a material language, because there's no words that could possibly describe or depict it. Yet one can say that it's, in some respects, not unlike Earth at it's most beautiful, without all the things that cause one petty irritation and annoyance, without all the stupid things that people do to spoil it.


Here, everything is beautiful because people think beautiful thoughts and, in a strange kind of way, those beautiful thoughts help the atmosphere. It's so rarified and pure and beautiful and the light is so wonderful. It's a reflective light we have, I'm told. Not from the sun, but some other source and it's always a soft beautiful light and the colourings here are so marvellous. 


We have such a wonderful range of colours and the flowers too. I've been into forests of flowers - I suppose it's the only way you could describe them, where the flowers are enormous and beautiful, and give off the most beautiful perfume. Of course, you see, here, although one can pick flowers, one soon learns not to. At first one does, I suppose, it's a habit to do that, and put them in the house, but we soon learn that it's not the thing to do, for there is life in the flowers and it is better that they should remain in their own natural surroundings.


But when my sister came and bought me those flowers I asked her about that and - a long time afterwards.
'Oh', she said 'they were only thought-flowers, they were not the actual flowers. They were thought created flowers. In other words, I thought of a beautiful bunch of flowers for you, and there they were for you.'


But it was only temporary you see. Oh, everything here is so perfect so beautiful.

Perhaps some other time I'll come again and talk to you, but I must go.

Greene:
Oh Mary, don't go...
Must you go?

Mary:
I'm afraid I have to go in a moment, they tell me my time is nearly finished.


Greene:
I was going to ask you...


Mary:
Did you want to ask me something?


Greene:
Yes. You said the air was very rarified. Do you have oxygen over there? Is it oxygen in the air?

Mary:
Well I don't know if you call it oxygen, but I call it air. Because one's conscious of breathing and conscious of taking in... well I suppose it must be air of a kind. But it's so.. it's like wine!


Ah, this is a perfect world. I have no desire to make any changes. I hope there are no more kinds of deaths, I'm quite happy where I am. Although they tell there are many spheres that one can enter into gradually. It's a matter of evolution. But I am quite content, I wouldn't want to move.


Anyway, I must go. But my love and blessings to both of you.
Goodbye.


Greene:
Thank you Mary very much.


Woods:
Thank you Mary.

Mickey:
Bye-bye!

Woods:
Cheerio Mickey and thank you for this, very much.

Greene:
Goodbye Mickey. Thank you love, very much.


END OF RECORDING


This transcript was completed for the Trust by K.Jackson-Barnes - October 2019