Youtube video interview with Flint Trust co-founder
Larry Taylor (1931 - 2012)
Rev. Larry Taylor Interview
Recorded: June 2012
Note: Available as Youtube video option above or audio-only option below...
Please read the transcript below...
When did you first meet Leslie Flint?
I met Leslie, uh, when he...in 1971 when he came over to New York with Bram to promote his book, Voices in the Dark. I had just come back from touring with the Dance Theatre of Harlem, and I got a phone call from our mut’... Leslie and my mutual friend. I never did know she... well, she used to talk about him, yeah. She said, ‘Leslie’s here, come on over. I want to introduce you’.
Well, I was knackered, [tired] and I didn’t really want to go, but I did go. Well, I walked in to the flat, and there was an archway around the hall, leading into the sitting room, and right opposite the archway was Leslie and Bram sitting there, and you know the feeling... and the expression is, when you meet someone and you know you’ve known in a past life. Did you know that feeling - instant recognition and the emotions involved with it...?
Anyway, I went over and introduced myself, and nothing else was said. During the sitting, I think I got the first message, and no one there knew anything about my background, because the lady who was the hostess was a client of mine. And she... uh, my grandmother came through, my maternal grandmother came through.
It was her voice, and her slight accent and no one else would have known and it also... I realise now she was, she gave... she gave... it was in code, because she was a very private person. She said, ‘I want to talk to you about your mother’, her daughter.
And she said, ‘You’ve got to forgive and forget, otherwise it will destroy you’, and I said, ‘Okay’, then she said. ‘I love you very much and give my love to your Mum.’ And that was it. In all the years... then I... Leslie... after the meeting I invited him to the Dance Theatre, and I’d invited him to my flat for tea, and I showed them around New York.
And then I was supposed to be on tour, go on tour with the, um, the Dance Theatre in ’75, and I wasn’t well. And Leslie... I said to Leslie, I can’t come over [to London] - so he said, ‘You come over!’, very demanding. And so he said, ‘I’ll pay your fare.’ I said, ‘No you won’t, I’ll borrow the money’.
Well I did, and then the dancing was over and, uh, I went to see them at the...at... what was it, the... uh... I can’t remember. It’s a big dance...it’s at Sadler’s Wells, I think it was and, uh, then I invited them over... Leslie invited them over for a séance [the theatre dancers]. Well, it was quite a séance, because he had other people there from all the papers and everything else. And the spirit people mostly ignored Leslie, unfortunately - he was furious - they went to the dancers, who were very psychic and very sensitive.
Anyway, after that then we left, and I stayed with Leslie every time I came back [to London], until one day he blew up at me, very volatile, and I came here to the church [London Spiritual Mission] - they put me up - and I’ve been here since. And Mickey had said it was all arranged, that I had to be at the church because one day I would be... hold a high office here. And Ros, the secretary at that time, said, ‘not if I have anything to do with it’ and she did.
Anyway Leslie and I, we had - and Bram - I mean, I was there socially and they gave a lot of parties, and they had people over, and Ros and her husband would come over. And they had New Year’s Eve parties, especially with a piper in [Scottish bagpipes] and so on, and they loved fancy dress parties - I never went to one - but they did.
And prior to my coming over - or coming back, I should say - Leslie always had theatre people there. He loved theatre people and film people. He was quite a unique character. He was one of the very most big-hearted people I have ever met.
What was Leslie’s early life like?
I know that he used to hear... see people that were dead, and he’d tell his granny. And she’d give him a bash around the ear, because she said he couldn’t do it. And, um, she got a letter... uh, some...aunt came and brought a picture, and Leslie looked at the picture, I think he could... he was about eight or nine, something like that... uh and she said... he said, that’s the man I saw the other day. It was an uncle of his, and, uh, again he got a bash around the ear.
Anyway, he used to...she used to go to the cinema with him, and he loved the cinema, and he’d sit there, and people would moan because there was [spirit] whispers all the way around him, and he was disturbing people. He couldn’t help it, he did not know what was happening.
In school he loved art, and he loved the... he had a very warm feeling for an art teacher who befriended him. And after he left school, he had to earn money after he left school, I think he left at sixteen or something like that, and he got a job as a grave... a gravedigger. And one day he came across a headstone, and it was his teacher’s grave. Well, he went to the rubbish bin, and he found some fresh flowers in there, and he put it in front of this grave. That’s the kind of man he was.
Yes. I’m sorry, Leslie! [Laughing]
Then he used to go to meetings, only because he was hungry, and they served tea and biscuits at meetings. Then somebody in the church... now prior to that, and I think he was quite young, about eight years old, [eighteen] he got a letter... grandmother gave him a letter from Germany from a medium there, who said he’s got to carry on with his development and a man in an Arab outfit told her to tell him. Of course, that was Valentino.
Anyway, uh, so it must have been sometime in the thirties, because Valentino passed... of course Valentino knew all about the subject. He [Leslie] went on to join a dance class, because he loved dancing and he developed some... so well that he was teaching dancing, and he was teaching with a lady called... ‘oh god give me her name’ who later became his wife [incorrect] I wish I could remember her name, it’s age I guess... uh, it might come to me... and they used to go to meetings.
And, of course, he developed. He was in the development circle for seven years. It was a group of people and it was a group of Jewish people. He always emphasised that, because they gave so much to him, of their time and energy, without even wanting anything in return. And he said, ‘if it wasn’t for them, I wouldn’t have developed’.
And sometimes he used to drift off, and he didn’t know what was happening, he’d come back. And they used to say... talk about certain phenomena that happened. It was more or less a trance, though he wasn’t used as a trance medium - except, I’ll tell you something later.
Uh, then the voices started coming in the circle and word got around from the societies, and he did very little work. Then his wife... oh god... it begins with an M... I can’t... give me the name will you please! Muriel. No, it wasn’t Muriel, was it? It was Muriel... something sounding like that.
Anyway, they... they developed a dance class and she... they would have private... they would have groups of circles at their home and she would see to everything. And, um, he was treated... he travelled all over England and treated like royalty in many respects, so he became a little spoilt that way. Rightfully so, because he shouldn’t have had to worry about any of those mechanics and so on.
Ah, then he... his great... one of his biggest blows was his... when his, uh, stepson was killed in the war. Oh no, he was killed after the war. He absolutely adored him. ‘Oh give me...’ it begins with a G, and I can’t think of it. Anyway, the son had moved to California and married and had two daughters I think, and then he found out and so he went on and on doing the work.
And, uh, he... then his wife became ill she had a stroke, and he couldn’t carry...do it on his own. So he... a young... young man who knew him from one of the churches moved in, and he looked after her. I think he was a carer or a nurse or something like that. Then he passed away.
And then he met Rosie Creet, who was one of his sitters, and she had this big Brunel House in Westbourne Terrace, 140. And one of the flats became available, and she offered him the flat, and he said fine.
Then he met... he did meet Bram in the... in the... at the theatre, and they became friends, and then they became partners, and they were very devoted to each other - for almost thirty years I think. And then when Rosie passed away, the year after I met him... I think it was ’72 or ’73, she left them the house. And it had four... two floors of flats above... or three floors of flats. So, he an income from that.
But all the time he loved coming to the States. He loved going to California, because Mae West was one of his biggest clients. She met... he met her here at the Dorchester [hotel] or was it the Royal? Savoy. And then when he used to go to California he used to go out and see her and many other people. He knew Valentino’s family as well... uh, he lived a very quiet life really, towards the end.
How did you get involved with Spiritualism?
Well, how I became involved in Spiritualism... I had a gift all my life as a youngster, I used to see things, hear things. I knew people... I saw manifestations of people I knew who were dead, from the family. I didn’t know what to do about it. I said to my mother... I told my mother. She didn’t understand. Because I had an uncle who was schizophrenic, she thought I was schizophrenic and took me to a doctor. And they said, ‘he’s schizophrenic’ and they institutionalised me. Anyway, it was good experience.
I got through that, came out and then my business partner was involved in a psychics and readers and so on. And he took me to see this medium, very well known medium, Caroline Chapman, who lived in my area - and she changed my life completely. She told me all that had transpired in my life, she told me that one day I would come back to England and I would develop here, really develop here. Because prior to that I was doing my meditation every day after... after my training [in London] here with Ivy Northage, and I had to go back to the States.
Uh, then, uh, she more or less described Leslie, and I didn’t know who he was. But later on... then, uh, coming back from Europe in 7...in ’65 I think it was, I used to read the cards, and not really know what I was doing and all these things blurted out, socially, with people. Scared the hell out of them, but I just did it naturally. I thought it was natural.
Anyhow, uh, another primary element in my experiences were, I seemed to know of things. I seemed to create in my sleep state - though I never slept anyway - but I did a lot of astral travelling, which I know now. People used to ring and say, ‘what the hell were you doing in my room last night?’ and...sorry about the clock [sound of chiming]. Anyway, uh, then it all developed that way, perfectly naturally. I did my... I was told by Ivy to do my meditation, when I went back to the States, every day.
My... people started developing me, and then I started, uh... oh, I stopped... came back and I wasn’t able to work, because I was coming back to England at that time, and my friend at the Gypsy Tea Kettle was a reader, card reader, you see? [She said], ‘Why don’t you work here, you’d do the job very well?’ So I did. Earned some pennies and I built a clientele that way, then stopped that and started working from home.
And my... people told me to stop using the cards. They weren’t necessary, and that’s how I started using... the mediumship started. It came through in the cards, but it came through without the cards now, and I never looked back from there.
Working with spirit on a daily basis?
Yes, uh, well there are many levels one can work with spirit. If you work with it on a physical or a... or a psychic level, you’re working with etheric bodies. If you are working as a medium, then one... I learned this many years ago when I was developing from Ivy Northage, that in order for a medium to be used by an entity from the other side, the medium must raise their vibrations and the entity has to be able to lower their vibration.
Now, this is a learning process on both parts, on both sides of the weil... veil - my voice is changing! Well... we got the German people coming through do we? [Laughing]
Anyhow, on a daily... on a daily... I’m aware of the energies around me. In many ways... when I am not working as an instrument or doing a sitting or taking a service, I tend to try to be closed down - unless the people on the other side want to use me urgently, and there’s an urgent need, then I’ll start blurting things out to someone. Not that I remember. I never remember what comes through me.
Because when I was a youngster, I had a photographic memory that’s because I was dyslexic and had to remember properly. When I started doing this work, I started remembering these things, and I said, ‘Look, I don’t want to know any of this stuff. Please stop it,’ and they did. Now, it’s the old adage: ‘if you don’t ask you don’t get.’
Now, working with spirit or working.... hunches, I get hunches about things and sometimes [I don’t mind] then suddenly something happens suddenly, and I go, ‘ah, that’s what that means’.
Okay, and I do advise anyone who has a mediumistic ability, don’t be frightened of it. If you have [spirit] people visiting you and you don’t want them there, tell them to please leave and go to the light... uh, if you have it continuously and you can’t control it, my suggestion is go to a Spiritualist organisation. There are many of them around - uh, not a fortune teller or a psychic college, but a true Spiritualist organisation. Somebody will be there and ask for... ask those who come close to you, your loved ones who’ve passed over, ask them to help. If you don’t ask, you won’t get.
You have to ask for help, because those on the other side of life are not allowed to interfere with your free will - unless you just turn it over to them. And that’s what happens with many people who won’t... don’t want to take responsibility for their lives, so they say, ‘spirit made me do it’ or ‘this person made me do it’ and... no one makes you do anything you don’t want to do. You allow it to happen.
And this is why I say; if you develop properly, you have to be in control of your gift. Otherwise it will go haywire, and then you really go around the bend. And I wish you well.
Modern Spiritualism, how have things changed?
Well, I am not very pleased with it, personally. It’s not the way it used to be. It’s not the dedication and the commitment, that people who are developing, have to give. Uh, there are some classes, there are schools - and I’m not mentioning any names, they know who they are - that’s one of Leslie’s statements [laughing] - they give these courses at tremendous amounts of money, and you take one year, two years, three years, four years and it’s more...more... it’s done more on a psychic level or an auric level, than it is done on a mediumistic level.
Now you can be psychic without being a medium, but you can’t be a medium without being a psychic, and one is developed from the other, and the best development of mediumship is done in one’s home circle or on your own in our own meditation. Because if you establish a link with your [spirit] helpers and teachers, it’s a marriage - you establish a relationship and you’ve committed yourself to it.
Now try doing a meditation at least ten minutes a day, because... I always say that, and people say, ‘oh you don’t do that...’ but I say that’s the way you establish your connection with them and they have to learn how to adjust their energies to yours and the sitter... or the developing medium has to learn to adjust their energies and it is a mutual action.
And that’s why it’s so important to sit every day even if it is just for five minutes or ten minutes, to establish that link and they will know you better than yourself. They will develop you how they... develop you how they want to use you.
There’s no good going to... taking a course and saying, ‘oh I am going to be a healer, I’m going to be a psychic artist, I’m going to do psychic medication... meditation’ and so on and all that stuff. Don’t tell spirit what you’re going to do - they will tell you what they want you to do and how they are going to use [you] - because your commitment is them and they know your energies better.
And there is no sense in limiting yourself to one particular aspect of Spiritualism. If you are an instrument and you have developed yourself as an instrument, you can be used in many different ways, because there are many forms of mediumship. And here endeth the lesson!
How did the Leslie Flint Educational Trust come about?
Right, well when Leslie passed away I had just... I’d seen him a week before and we said our goodbyes, because we both knew he was going, and then after the funeral Gwen... before the funeral Gwen Vaughan and I went down to look after the things at the house and we talked about Leslie’s work and we said, ‘How can we not preserve this work? It’s so important for so many people.’
And so we went through all the archives, and Gwen herself was an archivist, and she had copies of all the tapes and material and all the Valentino’s stuff and she really... she did the foundation and all the records and all the... the material. She held onto all that. And then we got together, and we got a solicitor to develop... we wanted to do a Trust.
Do you ever hear from Leslie?
Yes, in many different ways. I mean the last time I had physical contact with him through another medium, a very well-known independent direct voice medium, several years ago, but he talked about the Trust and he encouraged us and told us what he wanted and would like to happen to the Trust, and we tried to follow those directions.
On a personal level, every once in a while, he’ll pop into my Thursday evening circle and Colin will give one or two little tidbits that he uses.
Any final thoughts?
And I will say, as I end this interview - and I think that we are coming to the end, aren’t we? That the primary ingredient for developing one’s spirituality is to know thyself and love thyself, not in a physical sense.
As Mickey always said, ‘If you want to find self, lose self.’ And that’s my reaction in my work; I’m out of it. If they want to use me fine, that’s fine, I’m available. But you have to love yourself, not the physical aspect of you, but the God-like essence that we’re all created in the image of and therefore, allowing that to develop, that will reflect from you to all the people around you. And there are no mistakes and there are no errors, there only experiences.
I wish you all well. Many blessings.
END OF RECORDING
Transcript created for the Trust by Karyn Jarvie in July 2020