Mickey:

...his heart's in the right place and he tries to do the best he can.

 

Greene:

He does doesn’t he?

 

Mickey:

And he's very fond of you. He’d be lost without you, mate.

 

Greene:

Well I’m very fond of, of him Mickey.

 

Mickey:

I know you are. You two get on like an house on fire...of course, you have your squabbles, well...

 

Greene:

They're not really squabbles are they?

 

Mickey:

Well you know, I mean...ha ha! I have been there odd times though.

 

Greene:

He gets a bit...he gets a bit irritating sometimes...

 

Mickey:

Well you know, you sort of, uh, you get airyated.

 

Greene:

I get worried about him Mick, you know...

 

Mickey:

Yeah, well. He’ll be alright.

 

Greene:

[Unintelligible]

 

Mickey:

Well you're not worrying unduly about him now, are you? He’s not seriously ill or anything.

 

Greene:

No, no. It's just...I hate leaving him when he’s not well, you know. Still...Mickey?

 

Mickey:

What?

 

Greene:

George and I were talking the other day...whether there's anybody who'd, uh...I mean, whether we, uh, could draw anybody to us, who could tell us something about the evolution of man, the progression of man?

 

Flint:

[Cough]

 

Mickey:

Oh well...

 

Greene:

I know that sounds a rather big order but...

 

Mickey:

As you say, it’s tall one, ain't it?

 

Greene:

[Laughing]

 

Flint:

Huh!

 

Greene:

That’s the only way I can put it, that I, suspect they, when George was talking about it the other day, they were trying to say who was 

[unintelligible] him.

 

Mickey:

[Unintelligible]

Well it’s a lovely day. I thought George would have been able to have made it today.

 

Greene:

Well he was fine and then he said he felt awfully squeamish, um, Mickey.

 

Mickey:
Oh?

 

Greene:

Yes, you know, and he thought, well, he could catch the train...get the train as far as Victoria and find he couldn't make it or something like that. So, he thought it best to say quiet.

 

Mickey:

Well at least he’s sensible ain't he, if he don’t feel up to it?

​

Greene:

Well next time I hope he’ll...

 

Voice:

Yes I do...

 

Greene:

Hello?

 

Voice:

...very interesting of course...

 

Flint:

Hmm?

 

Grant:

This is very nice.

 

Voice:

Yes I know, they're good.

 

Grant:

Yes I think so too.

 

Greene:

Come along friend, we can hear you...I can hear you.

 

Grant:

Where is your friend today?

 

Greene:

He’s not very well today.

 

Grant:

Oh, I am very sorry to hear that. Will you tell him that we are hoping he'll be quite fit and well again soon...

 

Greene:

Yes.

 

Grant:

...and be able to come next time.

 

Greene:

Well, yes...

 

Voice:

Yes I know...

 

[Break in the recording]

 

Grant:

[...your earlier conversation...]

 

Greene:

Yes?

 

Grant:

Well, as a matter of fact, it touched on so many different points, that, uh, one would need many sessions to discuss at length the many facets, one I might say, of the conversation.

 

Greene:

Yes?

​

Grant:

But, of course, naturally we are particularly anxious and very concerned indeed about the immediate future of man. Certain experiments which are taking place and others which are about to take place, which could be very dangerous - not just for the individuals concerned, but the whole human race. I feel that one should be aware of these problems, these terrible complexities which must and will arise.

 

One can only hope and pray that the immediate future will prove to man, to those particularly concerned, the very strong element of danger to human life, which could and may well arise from certain things that are happening. I am not suggesting that man should cease completely, uh, these experiments.

 

Experiments, some of them, are very necessary and indeed justifiable. But we are concerned about bringing into Earth conditions certain matter, certain substances, certain gases, which could, not perhaps immediately, be detrimental to man’s health and wellbeing, but at a later stage.

 

You know, this may all sound very strange to some who may be listening to what I say. Indeed there may be those who are inclined to ridicule and certainly those, should they ever hear what I say, those in certain places who are responsible for these experiments. They, no doubt, are so clouded-over in their minds by the intensity of their thoughts concerning their experiments, that they would ignore it anyway.

 

But I must admit that there is a certain amount of uncertainty and indeed, in some directions, a certain amount of fear as to what man, in his ignorance, may do to his world. I don’t think man realises the immensity of this whole business. As things are, it seems to me that man is bent on destruction in various ways...

 

Greene:

Yes...

 

Grant:

...uh, whether it is on Earth or whether it is going into outer space, landing on the moon and possibly at a later stage (who knows?), on other planets.

 

All these varying planets are different. They have their own particular atmospheric condition, they have their own conditions, which in their own fashion - necessary so they are to that particular world - could be so opposed to man, so opposed, in a sense, that if man were to try to harness - as he may well do - certain aspects of life and condition of life, on the moon for instance, he will find that over a period of time, he could well bring into the Earth environment and condition, certain substances, certain gases, which could be very, very bad for future generations.

 

I don’t suggest that this will happen immediately. There may not appear to be any immediate effect, but you are bringing or will be bringing into the emanation of Earth, substances so subtle, so fine, that scientists on your side could not even be aware of them, certainly couldn’t analyse them.

 

But of course, the danger is that once man has reached a certain point, he will not be satisfied. He will try to go further afield. He will experiment in various ways and he may well rue the day* when these experiments started, because it's not natural.

 

For the world, your world, has its own natural conditions, it's own natural substances, its own natural gases. It is a world unto itself. But once you are out, as it were, of that environment or condition, away from its pull in the atmosphere, you are entering into something which is quite, quite different.

 

So far, man has been safeguarded in his experiments by various scientific apparatus. The time will come when this apparatus will not be sufficient and contamination can enter into the condition of those involved, uh, which can spread rapidly. This, to my way of thinking, is a tremendous danger, which man - scientifically minded though he may well be, with his knowledge - has not seriously appreciated it or understood.

 

You know, it seems to me that there comes a time and a point with man, when he loses all sense of precaution. In his intensive interest in his scientific experiment, he ceases to think, he ceases to even act as other people do. I suppose one might call this a form of dedication which, when it is used in certain respects, is an extremely good thing for man.

 

But when you are dealing with certain things which are beyond man’s range - and it was never intended that the moon, for instance, should be in man’s range - I think that one then has to face up to the fact that you are, not only probing into the unknown, but you are unconsciously opening up a door, which may not prove to be a door entering upon knowledge, but a door upon disaster.

 

And this I feel is the big problem. That man has not fully appreciated - with all his experience, knowledge and scientific and tech...technical expertise - he has not realised the tremendous possibilities that may come that are detrimental. Man sees this as another step forward in man’s evolution, but his object and purpose is not purely scientific or for the good of man. It is, I regret to say, obviously in certain instances particularly, to the detriment of certain nations.

 

Greene:

Yes...

 

Grant:

You see, it seems to me, that man’s whole intent and purpose in this, is not purely experimental and it’s not purely scientific. It’s not purely for the good of the mass of humanity, but it is visualised as being able to build stations so that the whole world can come under the eye, as it were, of the nation who achieves and builds these stations, which they intend to build - landing stations - eventually, not yet, but later.

 

And I think the whole idea is that who masters the moon, masters the world. This is another aspect that, in itself, is frightening...

 

Greene:

Mmm...

​

Grant:

...quite apart from the dangers. Of course, I am going to 'stick', as you might say, 'my neck out' and say that they will never reach that state, they will never reach that, um, ability to build on the moon, stations. Uh, that they will find that they will come up against certain atmospheric conditions alone - apart from other conditions of the moon itself - that will prevent them, uh, from doing certain things they have in mind.

 

I am not suggesting there will not be landings and I’m not suggesting that there will not be successful landings and also return to Earth. But I am more concerned with, in a sense, the return to Earth of individuals and also equipment, uh, which could, in its own fashion, create a certain set of circumstances which would be hidden...unknown to even the most scientific mind on earth. In other words, nothing is, presumably, going to be apparent, nothing is going to be visible, nothing is going to be detected.

 

And what people do not realise is, that there are minds at work, there are mentalities at work, there are entities at work and, um, they are working on 'the other side' - that is, the astral conditions around Earth - also endeavouring to bring into being certain elements, uh, which, if they were given enough power, uh, could take over.

 

Now this may sound like science fiction or something, but what people don’t realise is, that it isn’t only a matter of going into outer space, landing on a certain sphere, landing on a particular world. But to reach this, you are piercing the atmosphere, you are piercing worlds invisible. You are piercing worlds which are within the auric emanation or range of Earth, on which or in which, there are forms of existence of life and mentalities. There are souls who are very un-progressed, there are conditions of life which are very, very near the Earth, but have no power over it.

 

These experiments of which we are talking, are opening up or can open up, certain fields - I don’t how to put this technically into words - but fields of radiation.

 

Greene:

Mmm...

 

Grant:

And this is a mental radiation, apart from the radiation of certain matter, uh, which can affect your world. Can affect the natural conditions of your world, can affect the growth of man, can affect the growth of nature, uh, can affect the animal kingdom...

 

I am not saying that these things are going to happen, but I am saying that all these experiments of man are interfering with balances, are interfering with conditions, are interfering with environments, interfering with subtle minds at work.

 

The subtleties of these things one cannot explain, because there are no ways that one can explain, but one must remember that all life is a mental process. It may not always manifest itself through a body, it may not always manifest itself through a shape, it may not manifest itself as you understand it at all.

 

But in some shape or form, there is a manifestation of many forms of life in and around the Earth, reaching up and outwards to the varying other worlds, upon which certain worlds, entities do live of a much higher order than man himself - and these too, from certain spheres or planets, have at varying times made contact with Earth. But they have been denied, to a certain extent, the opportunity to converse with man.

 

I am not suggesting here that there have not been isolated instances of souls from other planets, who have not, in some way or other, manifested themselves mentally...uh, there are contacts that have been made of a mental nature and, in consequence, appearances of individual souls from other planets have manifested.

 

But, generally speaking, for a very long time there have been manifestations around the Earth of mentalities from other planets who are concerned, very much concerned, at the motives of man and the experiments of man and the effect that certain things could have - not only in the immediate future, but at a later date upon your world in particular and, to some extent, on astral worlds around the Earth, invisible to the human eye.

 

You see, man assumes anything that is visible is a real thing...uh, the moon it is a reality because it is visible, it is tangible and soon he’ll be landing upon it and...as indeed are other worlds, of which as yet knows nothing.

 

But these are the so-called visible worlds, but the invisible worlds; these are invariably, though not always, the more highly evolved worlds. These are the worlds of the mind and of the spirit and these are the worlds which man has not seen and cannot see, because he is of a different substance and a different composition. But it is with the mind and the spirit that many of these things will eventually come into being and be harnessed - these forces, these powers - and man will become aware of them. This is what we hope.

 

But the point is, there is a great deal of concern at this moment, of these experiments which are taking place and the dangers that could ensue on the releasing of certain matters, uh, which could affect, certainly will affect, Earth. These are things that we are hoping to prevent, there are things that we want very much to avoid.

 

Man may achieve a certain success, as far as the moon is concerned, but it must, to some extent, uh, be diminished and eventually we hope, proven to man [to be] impractical and rather, shall we say, pointless and useless...uh, if we can do this - it's man himself must to do this really, it isn't what we can do. One can only hope that man will see the futility; he will perhaps be satisfied with having achieved so much and then perhaps, we hope, [he] will leave it at that.

 

But if he were to pursue it too far - and one may not be sure of this - but that man could do certain things which could be so detrimental, uh, that one can only hope at the initial stages, he'll see the dangers. This is what we are hoping will happen, that he will not go too far.

 

There is still the doubt, fortunately - I say fortunately, which may sound to the ears of some on Earth, rather an appalling statement to make - there is still the possibility that man will not successfully land on the moon or if he does he will never return. This may sound rather callous, but it is better that two or three lives should be lost, than perhaps the whole of humanity suffer.

​

Greene:

Yes.

 

Grant:

But you see, man cannot live on the moon, he cannot exist on the moon or if he did, it would all be in such an artificial way, with so much artificiality about it in so many different forms, that it would be quite impractical to live - in a human way, that is. And therefore, one can only hope that the early landings - assuming that they do succeed and are able to send back messages to Earth concerning it - will prove in the early initial stages, a futility. Which then, we can only hope, will satisfy man’s curiosity sufficient for him to cease.

This would be the satisfactory answer. This would be the best thing that could happen. Because if too much were to allowed to continue, the eventual tragedy, which would be brought upon Earth, would be appalling.

 

For a long time, certain souls from certain outer spheres have endeavoured to make a contact, in a subtle way and it has had to be done in a very subtle way. But, of course, no notice has been taken by those in higher places; particularly those who are scientifically so involved that they are not interested and wouldn’t listen. If they did, uh, take some interest they wouldn’t accept it.

 

You see we are faced, all of us, uh, with the position which, one can only say, can be brought to a satisfactory conclusion by man's realisation within himself of the futility of further experiments beyond a certain point. Nothing we can do or say can alter the fact that man will...must find for himself, how far he can go and this seems to me to be the only answer.

 

If he were to go too far, then I am sure that disaster would follow eventually - it may not be immediately - but at a later date. Because you would be releasing forces, releasing conditions, releasing certain substances and gaseous matter, which could eventually descend upon Earth, in such a way that it could destroy, to a great extent, life as you know it. This is the great danger.

 

Greene:

How terrible...

 

Grant:

But of course, we can only hope and pray that man will reach a certain point and then cease. I am not saying that there could not also be some good. There is always, as in most things, the good and the bad. I think that man can learn certain things and I think he's already learned certain things in his experiments. And he can - and there is no reason why he shouldn’t have - uh, satellites in the atmosphere, which can be beneficial to man. But there certainly cannot, as far as I can see, be built...there cannot be stations on the moon that would be satisfactory, this is the thing that's the danger.

 

Greene:

Yes...

 

Grant:

It’s not the, so much, the entering into space that is the danger, but attempting to land upon a planet and to live upon it and to utilise it for, as they might say, the benefits of the human race; I think that this is impractical and I would say well nigh impossible and certainly highly dangerous.

 

Greene:

Mmm...

 

Grant:

Anyway, in some future time perhaps we can discuss these things more at length. At the moment it's not possible.

 

Greene:

May I ask your name friend?

 

Grant:

Yes, my name probably won’t convey a thing to you. My name is Grant.

 

Greene:

Grant?

 

Grant:

Yes, my name is John Grant.

 

Greene:

George Grant?

 

Grant:

John Grant.

 

Greene:

John Grant. Were you a scientist on Earth?

 

Grant:

Well I wouldn’t dare call myself one, but I was always interested in science and I've taken a great interest in these experiments latterly and I can see the possibilities and the...well, the dangers. Anyway, perhaps next time, when you come with your friend, we can talk further...

 

Greene:

Yes.

 

Grant:

...and perhaps I can answer some questions. Anyway don’t be too distracted or depressed. I'm only telling you what I feel, what I have been given to understand. There are others much more in a position to know than me, myself, you see.

 

Greene:

Yes.

 

Grant:

Anyway, it’s been a pleasure talking and I hope I haven’t depressed you too much?

 

Greene:

No, you've interested me very much and I want other people to hear this tape.

 

Grant:

Yes. Well I must go now. Goodbye.

 

Greene:

Goodbye thank you very, very much.

 

Mickey:

Goodbye.

 

Greene:

Goodbye Mickey, thank you love.

 

Flint:

Well that was quite interesting. It sort of follows up what Mickey was getting on Saturday.

 

Greene:

I know...