The George Hopkins séance
"I did kill animals for food,
but there are so many other
forms of food that one can eat"
Please note: This vintage recording has been reconstructed and enhanced.
Although it is clearer than the original, it is not to modern standards.
Please read the full transcript below as you listen...
Present: George
Woods, Betty Greene, Leslie Flint.
Communicators:
George Hopkins, Mickey.
My
name probably don't convey anything to you, course no reason why it
should, cause I don't come up into the category of being famous you
know. I know that usually at your meetings you get quite a crowd of
people who, well, when on Earth was somebody of importance, well I
certainly wasn't so. I don't know whether I should take up a lot of
time in a way - not that importance is all that important, if you
follow what I mean, like ?
Woods:
Yes.
Hopkins:
Naturally
you play these here recording things over and it's always interesting
if someone famous or well-known, when they was on Earth, comes though
and gives a talk and [that should be] of interest to people, more
than an unknown person like me. Still I thought as how as I might be
able to be of some help. Don't mean a damn thing, I mean I realise
that, I mean there's no reason why I should...(unintelligible)...best
part of my life was spent on the farming. Course I wondered if that
might of any interest like ?
Green:
Oh,
very much.
Hopkins:
Occasionally...never one
thing and the other with me...I know I'd prefer to go out for a nice
walk on a Sunday rather than go to church. But as
for going to church, it wasn't really in my life. I've met a few over
here that apart from being high up, they was just the opposite. You
know, as far as I suppose the world sees it. But you see things
different on this side...
Woods:
Yes.
Hopkins:
It's
not what other people think you are it's where you are now with
yourself that counts.
Woods:
It's
very interesting what you're
saying.
Hopkins:
Sometimes...
Green:
Mr
Hopkins....
Hopkins:
What,
love ?
Green:
Can
you give us any idea of how you passed over ?
Hopkins:
Oh
yes, I can soon tell you that. Well, I just had a stroke or seizure
or heart attack or something of the sort. As a matter of fact I was
in the harvesting. I felt a bit peculiar, I thought it was the sun
and well, I sat down in the 'edge. As far as I was concerned I felt a
bit drowsy and peculiar and must have dozed off.
But dear, oh
dear, I had such a shock. I woke up, as I thought, and the sun had
gone down and there was me - or at least what appeared to be me. I
couldn't make it out at all, I was so puzzled. I just didn't know
what to do. I tried to shake myself - if you can do such a thing –
I...wake myself up, sort of thing. I thought, well this is funny, I
must be dreaming. I tried to sort of get, you know, some sense out of
meself. I tried to talk to meself, try and understand what had been
going on. I thought this must be some sort of crazy sort of dream or
something. I couldn't make head nor tail of it.
It never struck me at all that I was dead. Anyway I wondered what I am I going to do now. I don't know. Anyway I found myself walking, as I thought I was, I went along the road to the doctor's. I thought well, perhaps he can help me. Perhaps he can sort of, sort it all out, like, you know.
Anyway I got to the
doctor's and I knocked on the door, but no one answered. I thought
well, I shouldn't have thought he would have been out, because he had
surgery hours. Then I saw people coming and going in the surgery door
and I thought, I dunno, nobody seems to take any notice and I saw one
or two of my old cronies. They all sort of seemed to walk through me
almost, you might say. No one seemed to make any comment about me.
Course, I don't know I thought well this is a funny how-de-do.'
Anyway I stood there for a bit trying to work it out. Then I
saw someone hurrying down the road like mad to the doctor's. He got
to the doctor's rushed in and pushed past me and everybody and next
moment, I heard them talking about me. Which puzzled me. I thought
what the hell's wrong with them ? I'm here. I heard them say I was
dead !
The doctor went in his car up the road, and I thought
'well I don't know about dead. I can't be dead. I'm here. I can see
what's going on, I can hear what they're talking about. How the hell
can I be dead ?'
Then I thought to
myself, that's funny, I saw myself lying down. I don't know, how can
I be ? I mean you're dead and you're done for and you're in heaven or
hell. I'm certainly not in heaven and not in hell. I mean I'm 'ere,
listenin' to what they're talkin' about.' And of course, gradually I
suppose it dawned on me that I must be dead.
Next thing, oh I
dunno...anyway, next thing, I saw them picking up my body and
bringing it back. Well I dunno, they put me in the chapel.
Oh
dear, oh dear I thought, 'well this is the last straw. I must be
dead. I thought, well I've heard about people dying and I've had it
now haven't I ? I though to meself what shall I do now ? Nobody 'ere
seems to know me, want me or have anything to do with me and yet I'm
I suppose to be dead - I thought the best thing to do is to go and
see the parson. He's sure to know something.' So I went up to the
vicarage and I waited around and I saw him come in and sit at his
desk. Another thing that struck me odd was that I noticed then, that
nothing was solid. If I sat in a chair - in a sense I sat and yet I
didn't - I didn't feel any weight under me.
Anyway,
I saw the old parson and he came in and walked right past me, went
down to his desk, started to write letters and doing things. And I
started talking to him and he didn't take any notice and I thought,
well I dunno, he's like the rest of them. I should have thought he'd
know something. So I kept tapping him on the shoulder and once he
turned round, as if he thought there was something there and I
thought, 'oh I'm getting on a bit here,' so I tapped him again and he
didn't take any notice. Then he got up and sort of shook himself and
I think he was shivering. Well, it wasn't cold and it was quite a
decent sort of morning. I could see no reason why he should have felt
cold. Anyway, I couldn't say, but he didn't seem to realise I was
there at all. I thought well I dunno, I'm not getting anywhere
here.
Anyway
next thing I remember was that they was carrying my body down the old
churchyard in a box and they put me there with the old lady - and it
suddenly dawned on me about Poll, my wife, you see. I thought,
'That's funny. If I'm dead, I should be with her, I should have
thought. And where is she ?'
Anyway I was standing there watching them putting this body of mine in the grave - oh I should have mentioned, I hadn't got no children and all my brothers and sisters had died - I was the really last one of the family. I had some cousins who probably went abroad, but anyway, there was no relations of mine there, there was one or two of my old friends were standing around there. And it suddenly dawned on me than that, where was my wife and why was I not with her ?
And
anyway after this ceremony business, I was walking behind them, down
the path, you know. Then there right in front of me, coming up
towards me, was my wife - but not my wife as I'd known her in the
last few years of her life, but as I first knew her, when she was a
young girl. She looked beautiful, really beautiful. And with her I
could see one of my brothers who had died when he was, oh about
seventeen or eighteen. Young, nice young boy he was, fair-haired,
nice looking boy. There they were laughing and joking and coming up
towards me. Oh and I felt so funny, you know. I
thought well here I am and there they are, so I'm all right. They're
sure to know what to do now, you know.
Anyway, my wife and
brother they made a proper fuss of me, saying how sorry they were
that they were late - and I said well, about 'late' - how do you
know about time and all that, you know, so they said, “We
knew you hadn't been too well, but we had no idea you that were
coming as sudden as you were. But, we got the message, but we're
sorry we couldn't get here quicker.”
I
thought, 'that's odd. How the hell do they get about ?'
Course, I
knew I'd got about, but as far as I was concerned, I seemed to be
walking about same as I did before, except everything was much
lighter. I didn't seem to have any heaviness of the body, and no more
aches and pains like I used to have.
Anyway
they started to try and explain things to me, but they wouldn't say
too much. Because I'd got to get sort of adjusted and settled and you
know, generally settled in like. So I said, 'you talk about settling
in. Where the deuce do we settle in ? Nobody here seems to want to
have anything to do with us, nobody seems to take any notice.'
So
they said, “Oh,
that's all right. Don't worry about them” and
I told them about the parson, couldn't he do something ?
They said, “You don't want to go and see him. He's the last one to go and see. He knows less than some other people. You're alright, you come with us”
So
I said, 'It's alright wanting to come with you - I want to come with
you - but where do we go ?'
So they said, “We're going to take you to our home.”
So I said, 'Where's that ?'
They said, “Oh, we can't tell you exactly where it is, but we can take you there, and you'll soon realise its home all right. You'll recognise it.”
I
said, 'How
can I recognise it ? I've never been there.'
And they said, “Oh
yes you have. Many a time when you've been asleep. As a matter of
fact, you know it quite well.”
And
I started to think, 'well I dunno, I don't remember. I used to have
some odd dreams. Once or twice, I remember dreaming about a very
pretty place with a lovely garden, and my old dog Rover was there,
that died many years ago. I remember I used to think that was just
dreaming.'
They
said, “No,
that wasn't dreaming, that was you. (unintelligible)
with
us when you was asleep. When your body was
asleep your Spirit was free, and you could travel and be with us, see
?”
So,
I said, 'Well
it all sounds very nice, I must say.'
Then they said, “Don't
you realise that you're different ?”
I
said, 'Well, I feel different. I don't feel old. I don't seem to have
the old aches and pains like I used to.'
And they said, “have
you seen yourself ?”
So
I said no - I never thought of that - I said, 'strangely enough, I
haven't seen myself.'
So they said, “Well,
come on we'll show you.” and
I thought, 'this is going to be interesting, to see myself.'
I thought, well, I could look in a mirror couldn't I ? And they said, “oh no, not in a mirror...”
So
they took me to, what appeared to be, a very beautiful place, with a
lovely setting, lovely scenery and beautiful houses. More
country-fied than town-fied. And they took me to one, in a very
beautiful field and it was just the same little place that I had
dreamed of - or thought I had dreamed about. And there I was, as I
was in my dreams some years ago. I remember vividly once, waking up
about, early hours of the morning remembering this, and I thought
'well this is an odd do !'
But it was exactly the same. There
was my old dog, racing about there and wagging his tail, jumping up
and down. And I thought, well, well, this is something this is. Then
I opened the door, went in and there was a congregation. I should
think there were about a dozen or more right there, people I had
known. Another brother of mine, a sister, my wife's people...they
were all there, pleased and welcoming me and making a fuss of
me. And
telling me all about their own lives. In fact there was so much noise
going on, chattering and talking, all at the same time, the dog was
barking. It was a real home-coming. Then they'd got a nice old spread
for me. You'd be surprised.'
Then suddenly, I thought well, 'I
shouldn't have thought they had cups of tea over here and sat down
and ate things !'
They said,“Oh
yes, at first. I should imagine perhaps you don't expect it, but it's
something you have been used to and we like to make you feel at home.
And we provide these things for you and it helps to get you settled
down. Anyway, you're going to be alright now. You've got Poll and the
dog and us. We'll keep in touch with you and come and see you and
help you.”
And
I suddenly realised that I could see myself, I know this sounds odd.
But I could see myself - not as I used to see myself in the mirror -
but I
could see myself as
myself for the first time. I was
conscious of myself as I really was - not as I appeared, but as I am,
as I was, you know. (Unintelligible) to
realise that everything is there, inside you. You don't have to look
outside you for it, it's there. That's the important view. The real
person inside, not what you look like in the mirror or what your
friends think of you or know you as, what you really are, you see ?
George
Woods:
Very interesting.
Hopkins:
Oh
I had a proper time I can tell you and I said to everybody, 'Well
it's so wonderful, I don't know what to say. I certainly don't know
what to do.' And they said, “Well
don't say anything, don't do anything for a time. Just relax and
enjoy yourself and rest and get over this, sort of, shock of, well,
passing over, as you call it.”
And
I said, 'well what I don't understand is, it's all so natural, all so
real. Here you all are, all the people I've loved, all the people
that meant so much to me in my life, all here waiting to receive me
and make me happy and settled and content. And I said, 'there's all
those people down there, people that I've known and people that I'd
have thought would have had at least something - particularly the
parson.'
I
said, 'I know I wasn't a good church-goer, I didn't go regular, I
never felt somehow the need perhaps that I should have done, but,
he doesn't seem to know anything. He doesn't seem to be able to tell
anyone anything, he doesn't seem to be able to comfort anyone very
much. What's wrong ?'
And they said, “Well,
you mustn't blame the poor old parson. He's doing the best that he
can, under perhaps difficult circumstances. But you see, they just
haven't got the right end of the stick.”
Then
they started to tell me that it's just that they
close their eyes to the realities of spirit
as we know it and he's prejudiced, in his own strange kind of way. He's
got this weird idea that somehow, that only the so-called good are
going to be called up into heaven and eventually they'll return to
Earth to dwell on Earth in physical bodies. Well that made me laugh. He said, “You
know sometimes, that some of them, especially your parson, he really
believes that all those bodies in his churchyard, one day are gonna
open and everyone's coming out. All the skeletons are gonna put on
flesh and they're going to walk about and inherit the Earth. He
really believes that.”
And
I said, 'Well I never believed that tosh when I was there.' I mean,
it just didn't make sense to me. And they said,
“No,
but that's what he preaches. Course there're a lot of them are more
broad-minded than him. He's the old-fashioned sort. A lot of them are
more advanced now, but very few know about communication or 'life
after death' as such. They accept the fact, or the possibility of the
fact - the realisation, as it were - of life after death, but of
course they won't have this communication lark at all, you know. As
a matter of fact, one or two of us have been to what we call meetings
or circles or seances and we've made touch - you know, got through
like, got messages over. But they're very few and far between they
are you know. Very few Mediums that you can really make any contact
with or do much good.”
But
as for the Church - well, it's a pity, but they've lost the reality
of it all, you know. To them, it's something that all happened two
thousand years ago and well, didn't ever happen since. They live
in the past, and they don't realise the present and the future is all
the same really. There's
no such thing as time, I was told. It's all an illusion. I began to
realise that quick enough. Time is non-existent really. And I
thought, well I'd like to get back and have a few words. Perhaps I
can tell a few stories and help a bit, you know.
So
I thought, 'well I've been here several times and I know you make
these here gramophone recording things. You play 'em to
people.' Well, I thought it would be of interest to some, you
know. After all, everyone's got a story to tell haven't they -
whether they're high-falutin and progressed and all that, or not
?
Greene:
What
are you doing now ? How do you spend your time now ?
Hopkins:
Oh
I've got many interests. When I was on your side of course, I never
really had much opportunity in life. I was, well, I had to go out to
work when I was about twelve. Picking (pea-picking) all sorts of
things, before I even went to school. Course, I'm going back now,
what ? Forty-odd years back since I died...
Woods:
What
are you doing over there now ?
Hopkins:
'Well
I'm very interested in horses. I was always very fond of horses and
animals in particular you know. We have lovely pasturelands, lovely
fields and there's no killing - but as for riding one, well very
seldom.
Recording
quality degrades here...
Greene:
“[Do
the animals] have a higher degree of consciousness now - the ones
you're dealing with ? Do they understand you ?'
Hopkins:
'Oh
yes. When one's on Earth, one is inclined to underestimate the
intelligence cattle have got. They're intelligent, a lot of
animals you know. Of
course I did kill animals for food, [but] there are so many other
forms of food that one can eat and live on. And in any case, I don't
think it's a good thing to eat the putrefied flesh of animals. I
don't see that it can be of any real good to a human being. And after
all, I think an animal has its right to life as much as man.
You
see I think it's difficult for you people to realise that our world -
certainly on the vibration of life of which I live on - is
very real, very natural. Here there's beauty in every shape and
form. We have the countryside, we have the lakes and rivers. We have
great beauty in many different ways. We have flowers, birds and all
sorts of things that you associate with nature, excepting perhaps
what one might call the lesser forms. I've never seen things like
ants, although there is a great intelligence on your side with ants,
but I've never seen them here. I've never seen insects, as such.
I have seen beautiful birds - extremely beautiful birds. But as far as I'm concerned, there are certain aspects of nature, as you understand it, that don't seem to exist here. Whether they exist on another sphere...you see, I've come to the conclusion that there are all these different spheres, or states of being. And as one progresses from one to another, things which once were vital or important or essential or necessary, gradually disappear according to your needs and according to your outlook and understanding.
Things which were important perhaps on one sphere of your life - or activity, you might say - no longer exist or have a need for one another. I think that it's feasible that, on the higher spheres certain aspects of life change so considerably, that it would be hardly be recognisable to some, as life in the same sense. I've been told, I don't know this, but I've been told that for the very highly advanced souls, it isn't necessary, in fact, they don't feel the need to have bodies...of course that's something I can't understand.
But they say that when you become very highly advanced, you cease to have the need for a body, and you cease to exist in shape. Of course I don't understand that at all. It baffles me. But no doubt if I ever reach that stage it may be that I shall then understand it.
You
see we can only understand and appreciate what we're ready to
receive. That's why, when you tell a lot of people about this, and
you play these records and then people listen, then some say, 'oh
yes, it sounds very interesting' and others say 'what a lot of
piffle.' But obviously they will. Because there are some people
they're so materially-minded, they're so tied up with material
things, they can't think beyond material things at all - they're so
wrapped up in pounds, shillings and pence. If they're so wrapped up
in all the things appertaining to your side of life, they can't grasp
anything of a spiritual nature.
Recording
quality improves here...
Everything's
a state of mind. Man is no more than he thinks he is and what he is
with himself. I mean, thought is the predominant thing - all life is
thought creation. If only people would think on the right lines,
uplift themselves, think on a higher level - don't be surprised how
things will change in themselves and in their lives and how we can
reach them. We'll help them, we'll guide them, uplift them. Thought
is the predominant thing. Bring it up to an eye-level, then we really
will make progress. Well I must go...
Greene:
Can
you tell us the place in Sussex you lived Mr Hopkins ? Can
you remember the name of the place ?
Woods:
He's
gone.
Greene:
That
was very good wasn't it ?
Woods:
It
was excellent...Very good indeed. Very interesting.
Greene:
Hope
I've got that recording...
Mickey:
He did very well didn't
he ?
Transcript created for the Trust by K Jackson-Barnes.
With thanks to Gerald O'Hara for his help with the recording.