The George Bernard Shaw séance
Recorded: December 23rd 1965
“People
will say 'what happened to G.B.S?
He seems to
have lost his Irish accent!'”
“I suddenly began to feel a strong personality impinging on me psychically. Although I tried to ignore this awareness, eventually it became too strong to resist and I suggested that if we drew the curtains and put out the light
we might find out who this personality was.
The curtains were drawn and the light put out, but only partial darkness was possible. Fortunately Rose had a tape recorder. The incomplete black-out did not stop the personality I had sensed from speaking almost immediately.
At first we did not know who the voice belonged to…”
“I merely came in for a few minutes... to wish you a very happy Christmas.”
George Bernard Shaw speaks with Rose Creet and they discuss how his most popular play Pygmalion
became an even bigger success years later, when it was turned into the musical My Fair Lady.
Note: This impromptu séance was hastily recorded on vintage domestic equipment
and despite enhancement some interference remains.
Please read the transcript below as you listen...
Jim Ellis:
[The following]
communication was received on the 23rd of December 1965, when George
Bernard Shaw talked to Mrs Creet. The medium was Leslie
Flint.
Shaw:
'Enjoy yourself on Christmas Day
and tuck in'.
Creet:
Thats
right.
Shaw:
What
an expression, what an expression.
Creet:
Why?
Shaw:
What
bad English that is.
Creet:
Huh!
Shaw:
'Enjoy
yourself on Christmas Day.' Well that's not too bad. But 'tuck
in' ?
Creet:
[Laughing]
Shaw:
What
an expression. But it's not the expression, it's the sentiment behind
it that matters. Of course, that I know full well. But, you know, I
find such interest in people and, uh, people's accents, uh... When I
was on your side I used to keep a very keen ear to
accents.
Creet:
Oh?
Shaw:
I used to
sometimes deliberately go out of my way to listen to a person. And
sometimes I'd make a point of going to cafés and places where I
could sit and observe and listen, without people realising it. And I
used to be so fascinated at people's conversations and the
intonations of their voice and I used to try and sometimes, sitting
in a train; not I hope, being observed or noticed - but nevertheless,
I was taking it all in. I was assessing them, trying to give them
characters, trying to build up things around them. And sometimes I
think, you know, in a sort of subconscious way, uh, I hit upon, quite
often, the true story.
You know, it's an extraordinary thing,
I don't think any of us fully realise it, but you know, we are all
very susceptible to conditions. We are very susceptible to
thought-forces. We are very susceptible to atmosphere, which
sometimes we are not always able to account for it - and, uh,
sometimes perhaps we are rather puzzled, but nevertheless, I do think
the vast majority of people, without realising or understanding it
perhaps, are extremely sensitive and psychic to things.
I used
to...when I used to sit down in my study, when I used to take pen to
paper and I used to try to create and bring characters into being, I
would find myself remembering...in fact, I used to keep little
notebooks and sometimes I'd look them up. Perhaps a character would
fascinate that I'd listened to and met, you know and I think that
that person could...would make a very good character in a play and,
um, and I would weave...weave that person, as it were, into the story
and build up situations and use some of the actual dialogue that I'd
heard them use perhaps previously, some days previously, in a
restaurant or perhaps in a, in a tram.
I used to keep my eyes
open and my ears open and I didn't miss very much. You know I used to
take various, um, people as a... as a model, I used to, um, mold them
to some extent into my stories...
Creet:
Oh
yes.
Shaw:
...and
plays and so on. I often think, looking back, that I might have done
so much more than I did, because, um, I think I missed, to some
extent, a lot of opportunity. But then I think all creative artists
feel like that; whether it is an author or a playwright or a musician
or an artist in some way. We, we, we do work. We work on
something...
Creet:
Yes.
Shaw:
...full
of enthusiasm, we build up to it and we create and we take so much
from ourselves in the attempt...and then we're not happy about it; we
think the construction is wrong perhaps or the plot's not working out
as it should be and all sorts of things enter one's mind. And I look
back now and I see that quite a number of things that I wrote, that
were never published, uh, it was rather perhaps a pity that I didn't,
um, go back on them or work on them again. I think some of the best
things, well, were never published.
Creet:
Were
you a playwright?
Shaw:
Well....I
had the reputation of being a playwright and I wrote quite a bit of
other work too.
I'm so sorry my dear lady, this is G.B.S.
Crete:
Oooh!
But I thought that...
Shaw:
Um,
I suppose if you were to...what do you call it now 'play this over'?
I think you term it, with this machine: this remarkable machine,
which I must admit I wish to goodness it had been brought into being
in my age, my day. It would have been a great asset to me and all
writers. But, um...people will say 'what happened to G.B.S? What
happened to G.B.S? He seems to have lost his Irish
accent!
Creet:
Yes,
that was...
Shaw:
Yes.
Yes, I know. I know that is true. I know that people will think and
say that, and, um, I suppose it is that over here, we have - and I'm
speaking for myself - I have so immersed myself in my life here and,
in consequence, have entered into the lives of so many other people,
have become interested in so much that transpires here, uh...
Creet:
Yes.
Shaw:
...and
I have realised how much more one can
enter, mentally, into the...into people's lives, into their minds and
so on and have become so accustomed to...to communication by
thought...
Creet:
Yes.
Shaw:
...that,
um, in the process of living and working and having my being here,
the Irish aspect or the Irish...you see, one of the first things we
learn to forget here is...I was going to use the term 'self', which,
in a sense is true and in a sense is not true - shall we say that one
learns here to put oneself further into the
background.
Creet:
Yes.
Shaw:
One
realises that you are to be and will become, eventually, submerged in
life, in the fullest sense, and there are many aspects of the human
being, especially certain people's, and I include myself, which are a
barrier into one's progress...as regards one's progress here. You
must forget many things and one of the things one forgets [sound
of a passing train] is
nationality and national spirit; national outlook, patriotism, pride
and many of the...failings...and they are definitely and truthfully
failings in human beings.
When one is on Earth, of course, one
doesn't think of them in that light. If you are Irish or Scottish or
whatever it may be, by background and upbringing, it's a normal
natural thing, through schooling and etc., to take pride in one's
nationality. I'm not exactly finding fault with it, but the only
thing is, it is a drawback to human life and human society, to the
well-being of the human race. This rather stupid pride in race...
Creet:
That
they should be patriots?
Shaw:
Yes.
It leads to war, as we know, it leads to unending tragedy. And of
course that...I don't suggest this is an answer to my losing - or so
it it appears - my Irish 'brogue', as it's called, but at the same
time I suppose it is also true to say, that I am not in the habit of
making communication and, um...
You see, the point is this,
dear lady...
Creet:
Yes?
Shaw:
...when
someone like myself attempts to communicate, I suppose so much more
is expected of us. You see, now if I were your 'Aunt Fannie' it
wouldn't be so important. You would be quite content with your Aunt
Fannie telling you about some idiotic something-or-other that
happened umpteen years ago which possibly in the family was hilarious
and caused a great deal of amusement at the time. But, um, poor
G.B.S. or poor Barry or some other soul who wants to come - who was
noted or reputed to be something, shall we say, of a wit, something
of a scholar, shall we say...
Creet:
Yes.
Shaw:
...or
something-or-other of a character - is expected to put on, what you
might term, a good show.
Creet:
Yes!
[Laughing]
Shaw:
But
I'm afraid, in a sense, although I may have been a good showman on
Earth, I'm not so good at trying to put on a show now. At least, from
the point of view that, uh...for the fact that perhaps I'm not so
experienced in the sense of communication as, perhaps, your dear Aunt
Fannie. As your poor dear Aunt Fannie may be so in the habit of
coming to talk to you and you may have become so used to listening to
the sort of drivel that she would probably talk
about...
Creet:
[Laughing]
Shaw:
...that
really, I wouldn't be able to compete with her!
Creet:
I'm
sure you wouldn't because you never...you know, you
never...your...your plays and so on, there was no drivel in
it.
Flint:
[Sniffing]
Shaw:
Well
I don't know...there was a lot of sense, yes. A lot of nonsense too.
When you come to think about it, although there was a great deal of
sense and a great deal of...well, I think some people who, in the
past, rather looked upon me as trying to sermonise. Though, you know,
in my earlier years...[laughs]
the critics, some of them, bless their hearts, rather got the
impression that I was using my plays to sermonise and to... To some
extent, it was true. I wanted to bring new light onto...onto subjects
which appealed to me, which affected me.
I wanted people to
think for themselves and think particularly about certain things,
which at my time...in my time, uh, caused me a great a deal of
concern. I was concerned with...with many subjects which, um...of my
day, were very important subjects, which a lot of people were either
not interested in or were not very anxious to do very much about. And
I tried to bring into my plays subjects and themes which I felt would
also have a message, which would make people think.
You see,
I know it's a common thing and I agree it's a very proper thing that
if you go to the theatre, you go to be entertained. But at the same
time, if you can be entertained and educated and have certain
subjects brought to your notice that may, perhaps, lead to something
being done, that will benefit people less fortunate, then I think
it's a good thing.
Creet:
Yes.
Shaw:
I
don't think that a play should be a sermon. At the same time, I think
it should contain something of merit and something of consequence,
something that will make people think and something that I hope will,
to some extent at least, raise the human mind to a higher status, to
a higher condition.
You know, the theatre today when I go,
which I admit is very seldom, appalls me. Quite frankly I feel that,
that although here and there may well be excellent plays in places,
generally speaking, I feel that the theatre has really
declined.
Creet:
Oh
it has. It has declined.
Shaw:
But
I must admit that I'm highly amused as to what they do find they are
capable of doing today, from the point of view of using other authors
works and adding music...
Creet:
Yes.
[Laughing]
Shaw:
...and
generally turning a play such as mine...
Creet:
Like
yours...
Shaw:
Yes...into,
um...I...I'm not going to complain. I think that, in a sense, perhaps
the music helped it a bit. But, um, [laughing]
I was highly amused. I was very amused indeed because the play had
been highly successful, one of my most successful plays of course,
and then they decide to jig it up a
bit.
Creet:
[Laughing]
Shaw:
And
now it's made more money, I believe, since they jigged it up with
someone else's music.
Creet:
My Fair Lady
it was...
Shaw:
Yes...than
ever it did previously.
Creet:
Yes.
Shaw:
Anyway,
I'm very happy to know that the young people of today are benefitting
from the proceeds of this new reproduction, if I can call it that, of
my old works. It's very amusing to think that, uh,
that...that...that...that this is
happening.
Creet:
[Laughing]
Shaw:
Anyway,
you know...of course you probably didn't see [when it was] first
played did you?
Creet:
No.
I've never seen it.
Shaw:
No.
It was quite many years ago. Oh, I've had some very amusing and
interesting conversations...but you know, I'm not supposed to be
talking at length to you.
Creet:
That's
alright.
Shaw:
As
a matter of fact, I merely came in for a few minutes - since it
seemed to be some sort of a party, a Christmas party - to wish you a
very happy Christmas. But here I am talking to you at length, just as
if I might be one of those relations of yours who had special
privileges!
Creet:
Oh
you can't be Aunt...Aunt Fannie anyway! [Laughing]
Shaw:
No
I shouldn't want to be anybody's Aunt
Fannie!
Creet:
[Laughing]
Shaw:
I
should hate that very much. But Ellen's her with me. You know, I
always had such great regard for Ellen.
Creet:
Anyhow,
it's very, very nice...
Shaw:
I
believe...I believe you've been reading our letters? I believe they
have been published?
Creet:
Is
that so? [Unintelligible]
Shaw:
Oh,
the things they do when you're dead and they think you can't
retaliate.
Creet:
Yes.
Shaw:
Well,
you know it's an extraordinary thing, how people...how people wait
until you're dead
before they just pull you to...well, of course, they didn't pull you
to pieces when you are alive but they seem to, when you're dead, they
think they can do exactly what they
like with you.
Creet:
That
is...
Shaw:
It
truly doesn't really matter to me.
Creet:
Oh,
I don't think that's a very nice thing to do, but it happens to so
many.
Shaw:
I
suppose they think, 'well, you've had all you can get out of your
life, now let us get something out of it'.
Creet:
That's
it. [Laughing]
Flint:
[Laughing]
Shaw:
But
anyway, they just write and say all sorts of things which sometimes,
quite frankly, is very...one finds very amusing.
Creet:
I
expect you're leading a very interesting life now?
Shaw:
For
a moment I thought you were going to say I was leading a double
life!
No. [Laughs]
I'm leaving...leading a very happy existence, yes of course I
am.
Creet:
Good.
Shaw:
But
I'm still writing and I would like to find some suitable instrument -
a medium or call it whatever it is - who I could get through, write
through and get some of my works published on your side. That would
be marvellous wouldn't it?
Creet:
Why
don't you try Geraldine Cummins?** She is supposed to be very, very
good.
Shaw:
I
don't know Miss...what you call her?
Geraldine
who?
Creet:
Cummins.
Shaw:
Oh.
I don't know the dear lady.
Creet:
She
is a wonderful automatic writer I believe. I should try her. Try and
see if you can bring anything through her. You might be able
to.
Shaw:
Anyway,
what I am going to concentrate on
now...
Creet:
Yes?
Shaw:
...should
I be able to come and talk to you again at length, which I hope I
shall in the coming year...
Creet:
Mmm...
Shaw:
...I'm
going to concentrate on my Irish accent a little bit, other wise dear
Dame...
Creet:
Oh
good!
Shaw:
...dear
Dame Sybil** and a few of my other friends on your side will never
accept me.
Creet:
Yes.
Shaw:
Isn't
it dreadful that people won't accept you when your
dead?
Creet:
That's
true. You do...do try and do it [unintelligible]
they will be able to recognise you...
Shaw:
But
you know dear...
Creet:
...with
that accent of yours.
Shaw:
...dear
Dame Sybil you know, she...I don't think she's really interested in
this subject.
Creet:
She's
what?
Shaw:
I
don't think she's interested in this subject.
Creet:
She's
not?
Shaw:
Don't
think so. Not really.
Creet:
Oh.
There are so many that are not. Very many people. It can't be
helped.
Shaw:
Anyway,
I must go. But bless you and a very happy Christmas to you dear
lady.
Creet:
Thank
you.
Shaw:
Good-bye.
Creet:
Good-bye.
Mickey:
Didn't
expect him to come in, then [talk so loud].
Creet:
Oh
but please tell us...
Mickey:
Dunno.
Ne'er mind. Hold on...
Creet:
Yes.
Flint:
[Laughing]
* Geraldine Cummins = Irish medium and prolific publisher of automatic scripts dictated from the spirit world.
** Dame Sybil = the British actress Dame Agnes Sybil Thorndike
[1882-1976]
This transcript was completed for the Trust by K.Jackson-Barnes - February 2020