The Leslie F​lint​ Tr​ust

Present: Rose Creet, Leslie Flint.

Communicators: Dr Charles Marshall, Mickey.

Flint:

[This séance was recorded on the]...13th of March 1958. Sitter, Rose Creet. Medium, Leslie Flint.

Creet:

...don't think about anything Mamoose.

Flint:

I’m not thinking about anything.

Creet:

Good.

[Short silence]

Marshall:

[It’s] a very unusual person who can sit and think of nothing.

Creet:

I beg pardon?

Marshall:

How does one achieve that Rose?

Creet:

What is that?

Marshall:

To be able to sit and think of nothing?

Creet/Flint:

[Laughter]

Creet:

Well I know the medium so very, very well I don’t want his mind to be disturbed during a sitting. That’s why I asked him [Laughter].

Marshall:

Well I should imagine you would not like his mind disturbed at all about anything at any time.

Creet:

That’s quite true but that is impossible.

Marshall:

I see. Well we’ll go on to something else.

Creet:

There’s one thing I wanted to ask you Doctor dear, which rather puzzled me...

Marshall:

What is it?

Creet:

May I?

Marshall:

Yes.

Creet:

When Akhenaten came in last, my last sitting, his voice was totally different to when he came the first time, when he took possession of the medium.

Marshall:

When you say took possession, do you mean to say he was entranced?

Creet:

Yes.

Marshall:

Well that may account for it.

Creet:

I was just wondering, I wanted to ask you about that. But why, why should it account for it?

Marshall:

Well I think the whole point is that, um, when a medium is used...

Creet:

Yes...

Marshall:

...their own idea of things, if you can put it like that, or their own impression…

Creet:

Yes..

Marshall:

in some strange way, inhibits or affects the communicating entity.

Creet:

I see...

Marshall:

For instance, if the conscious mind or the subconscious mind of the medium, uh, thinks that a certain person should have a certain kind of an accent or would expect them to have, the entity who is communicating probably would adopt that automatically or it would seem that they assume that. In other words when the medium is completely ruled out of the phenomena, then there's much more likelihood of the individual concerned, who is contacting, being able to come more naturally and speak in a voice, not unlike the voice that they would use either when on earth or as they would use over here if they were to speak.

Creet:

I see.

Marshall:

The whole point is, that one must get this straight and clear, that the voice itself really is always an artificially reproduced thing and one must never anticipate or expect the voice that you hear is necessarily identically the correct voice or the voice which was common to that person when on earth, um...so much depends on the degree of the mediumship and the mentality of the medium.

Creet:

Yes.

Marshall:

The medium who can completely eliminate himself from the phenomena is more likely to produce, not only more striking evidence, but also more likely to reproduce the voice of the communicating entity. After all is said and done, you should realise that all communication is a mental process; it’s all thought transferred into sound.

Creet:

Oh yes, I know that Doctor dear, but I just wanted to know...

Marshall:

...and assuming...and assuming that every voice that came through to you, spoke in the same manner and had, or so it seemed to you, the same personality then I think you could say then that the medium was greatly concerned with the phenomena. In other words, the consciousness of the medium was greatly affecting the phenomena.

But when you get a voice which has its own peculiarities, is different in tone and quality and different in its manner of speech, using perhaps expressions which may have been familiar to that person when on earth...in other words, when you get a character come from through from this side that has its own [inimi...] own personality, its own obvious type, then you can be more or less sure that you’re getting a good percentage of the communicating spirit.

But one must never forget, that at any time, there is bound to be somewhere, some trace of the medium’s personality. For instance, I mean it must be pretty obvious to you or anyone...I mean, for instance, I have heard you say to Mickey ‘oh come on Mamoose’ or something, which rather indicates that you’re conscious, in a subconscious way, of the inference or the interference or the consciousness, somewhere, of the mediumship. Of course, there again is an interesting point; there's a vast ‘linking-up’, obviously, there must be, between someone, shall we say, like Mickey and the medium. Where there is such close collaboration...

Creet:

Yes.

Marshall:

...such close connection between an instrument, a medium, and the entity, such as Mickey, who is really a control who is always around and about, who is probably more able to assert himself and more able to make use of the power of a medium, such as the medium we use, then you’re bound to get that sort of linking-up. It’s difficult perhaps for you to realise that the medium, although unconsciously is consciously...unconsciously linked up with the phenomena. Mickey and he are very inseparable.

Creet:

Yes. Oh yes I know that doctor dear.

Flint:

[Clearing throat]

Creet:

I was just wondering about...

Marshall:

But that doesn’t mean to say because that is so, that the entity that you know as Mickey is not a distinct and separate entity...

Creet:

A distinct individual, oh yes.

Marshall:

But you see there is a such a strong link between the two; the medium and the entity controlling, in this case Mickey, that it is very difficult for someone like yourself who has sat innumerable times, not to sometimes forget which is which. In other words they are so close that, um, its puzzling...

Creet:

Yes and the word fluidic is very expressive of it.

Marshall:

Yes. Well I think one must bear in mind that phenomena, this type of phenomena and for that matter any type of phenomena, is in a sense a fluidic thing. As I have said before, its doubtful if one can ever completely eliminate the medium, odd times it may happen.

Creet:

But you always seem to be distinctly separate from the medium.

Marshall:

Yes of course, because I assert myself. You’ll find that any soul from this side that is an assertive character, personality, invariably does much better. That is why some people who are more, shall we, say retiring and less likely to push themselves forward who are, uh, rather inhibited, um, they find it difficult.

Creet:

Yes its all very interesting. Mmm...

Marshall:

That’s why your friend Frédéric does so well.

Creet:

What? Frédéric what?

Marshall:

I said thats why your friend Frédéric does so well.

Creet:

Yes.

Marshall:

He can assume anything he likes.

Creet:

I know. I was wondering if there was any kind of...

Marshall:

Actually I think he would have been a brilliant actor.

Creet:

Do you know, I...he worries me Doctor dear.

Marshall:

I don’t know why you should let it worry you my dear.

Creet:
Because he...

Marshall:

Because sometimes he’s...you know, look I’ll be quite honest with you, its no good beating about the bush with you Rose you’re too darned discerning... Some while back I told him not to come so often because I didn’t think it was good for you, for your blood pressure and your general health, but he’s been several times under a different guise.

Creet:

I know!

Flint:

[Laughing]

Creet:

You know I’ve been thinking over that Doctor dear...and this Akhenaten...

Marshall:

You see, if you get an entity coming through calling himself Akhenaten or you get someone coming through calling themselves Jock, you accept them. But what you don’t realise is, its an extra personality of Frédéric.

Creet:

Now this Akhenaten...I mean, I was very doubtful about.

Marshall:

Well there’s no reason why you shouldn’t be. When I say doubtful, I don’t think you can ever realise it Rose can you, that Frédéric is one of the very oldest of old souls. He is so old, in as much, that he’s had so many incarnations, he’s such a developed personality. He’s such an extraordinary person you know, that he’s had so many existences and Akhenaten was one of his previous existences.

Creet:

It was?

Marshall:

...and that’s one reason... You see Rose, the whole point is this with you, you...perhaps, well you know yourself, but a lot of people don’t know you, that is people on your side particularly...and there was a time when you wouldn’t have accepted Frédéric, not at any price. If anyone had come through and said ten years even, or five years, perhaps, ago that they were Frédéric Chopin, you would have been extremely doubtful. You’d have probably listened with interest, but you wouldn’t have believed a word of it.

The whole point is, that Frédéric has been to you under different guises at different times, until such time as you were ready for the full revelation. The point is Rose, that you are gradually beginning to realise that we can, at will, assume old ‘shells’ or we can assume old personalities. You know, the Theosophists are very right when they talk about astral shells.

Creet:

Yes...

Marshall:

Because we can, by inhabiting and recreating, we can bring into being some previous life, some previous personality. We do that at times, sometimes because we have a very good reason; that is, we don’t want a person on Earth to doubt us, we don’t want them to have any apprehension, we want to give them conviction, we want to give them help in various ways. So sometimes, especially in the early stages, when we are communicating with a person whom we want to interest and help over a long period, we, uh, come back as a previous entity, uh...less, shall we say, famous, less perhaps interesting, if you like to put it like that, where there's less likelihood of the recipient of the message, the sitter being doubtful.

With Frédéric...it’s always been with you, I won’t say a condition of idolatry...but the point is, that somehow, whoever came to you, more or less within reason, you would have accepted them, and wouldn’t probably have had too much of doubt. But when it comes to Frédéric, you wanted to be so 100% sure that you were not being deceived, that it was impossible for him to give you conviction, to give you this state of mind that you now have about him. In other words, he had to bide his time and he’d come to you and prepare the road, prepare the way...

Creet:

Yes...

Marshall:

...and until such time as you were receptive. So it is possible. He will and he has been, these last few months, coming to you at odd times - and amusing himself very greatly, I don’t mind telling you...

Creet:

[Laughter]

Marshall:

...under different names.

Creet:

But tell me what other names Doctor dear? Do enlighten me.

Marshall:

Well of course, Akhenaten, but...

Creet:

Because last time it was Akhenaten...

Marshall:

Yes. But he’s also been...been to you under this Scotch guise.

Creet:

Not David?

Marshall:

You’d be very surprised my dear.

Creet:

David?

Eh?

Marshall:

Yes.

Creet:

David?

Marshall:

And having a go at me at the same time, damn it.

Creet:

What? Who’s that?

Marshall:

I say yes and having a go at me.

Creet:

Having a go at you?

Marshall:

Well, don’t you remember the things that he said to you?

Creet:

Oh yes!

Marshall:

About me?

Flint/Creet:

[Loud laughter]

Creet:

But David was a personality, he was talking about his fiancé who was on Earth and he was killed in the war and all the rest of it.

Marshall:

The point is, there are two entities who have spoken to you who claimed to be Jock. One is the real person, the other is the assumed.

Creet:

One is the new person?

Marshall:

No, no, no. Oh dear!

Creet:

Yes?

Marshall:

One is David.

Creet:

David?

Marshall:

Yes, Jock.

Creet:

Jock?

Marshall:

Yes. A Scots boy who definitely is who he says he is. In other words, he has got a woman on Earth that was in love with; engaged to I believe. The other is Frédéric.

Creet:

Jock?

Marshall:

Yes.

Creet:

Oh.

Marshall:

You’re still puzzled aren’t you?

Creet:

Yes.

Marshall:

Oh dear.

Creet:

Never mind leave it ’til..

Marshall:

Oh yes, its very important that you should know. Because some months ago, a long time ago, six months or so ago, I was very concerned about your health and I thought this blood pressure was a great deal due to too much excitement and I ,I, I, I, I did say, I admit this, I did say to Frédéric and others for that matter, but particularly to Frédéric, I said it was was wise that he shouldn’t come through so much because you got too worked up, too excited and, um, since then, he hasn’t been so often. And there have been long spells when we have been experimenting, that’s true, but also odd times he has spoken to you under this pseudonym, this guise, you see?

Creet:

Yes...

Marshall:

But, um, don’t be upset about that...

Creet:

No, I’m not upset. Now you wait a minute ’til I get him as Frédéric Chopin. You wait a minute.

Marshall:

Now I don’t want you to lose...

Creet:

Listen Doctor dear, I am so used to hearing Frédéric come, that I don’t get excited. I get more excited about things that are told to me, that I have no knowledge of, that interest me, than Frédéric coming.

Marshall:

Yes alright, alright..But anyway you’re much, much better...

Creet:

Yes.

Marshall:

...and the nice weather is coming and you’ll be able to feel better in yourself and we shall get back into our stride. But we have been very busy with experiments and we haven’t wanted to waste power and time by talking too much. So apart from that other business of, well, thinking and worrying about your health...the point is, that you mustn’t be upset or annoyed with Frédéric...

Creet:

Oh no I'm not annoyed. I’m...

Marshall:

He was actually trying to please you in his own kind of way, which perhaps, from your point of view, wasn’t the right way. But it is true that he has had many incarnations and he can assume various personalities, as indeed can quite a number of us for that matter. Because we can soon tap the resources that are all around and about us and recapture, if we wish, many past memories and we can come to you in a different guise if we think it’s essential or necessary or could be helpful to you. Because sometimes some of our other incarnations, when retold to you and given to you, uh, as an object lesson, if you like, can be of great service.

There is of course a little confusion in your mind about David, because David is a separate entity and is not Frédéric, But there has been an occasion when, um, Frédéric has impersonated or come through to you as a Scotch person.

Creet:

Jock?

Marshall:

Yes. So don’t be...there is that difference you see.

Creet:

Anyhow thank you for telling me Doctor dear.

Marshall:

Now I shall probably be in trouble with him.

Creet:

No, no, no, no, I wont say a word. No I’ll just pull his leg as well, when next I...I hope he’s not anywhere around?

Marshall:

Well its alright if he is I suppose. After all he understands you know?

Creet:

But this has...this Akhenaten, was he?

Marshall:

You see now Rose, now look, let’s get this from the beginning...

Creet:

I just wanted to know that...

Marshall:

You...when you first came into this truth, into this subject, you read a lot of books, you were searching for knowledge, you experimented with automatic writing and so on, and you were brought...several individuals were brought to you...

Creet:

Yes.

Marshall:

...and they were separate individuals and you came to know them individually and love them, in consequence, for their qualities and their interest, um...

Creet:

Yes.

Marshall:

But those...at that time Frédéric tried to manifest to you but you refused it...

Creet:

Yes, thats quite true.

Marshall:

...and in consequence he realised that if he were to make contact with you, he’d have to prepare the way. The time was too soon, too early, so in the intervening period he has been to you to help you, to guide you, to instruct you and to generally prepare the way for himself...when he could come as himself.

Creet:

And he’s done it beautifully Doctor dear.

Marshall:

And, um, you have had these contacts and now you have this contact which you now can accept as Frédéric and the culmination of all this is yet to come...that is something which we very much want too impress upon you. That the culmination of all the knowledge and experience that’s been built up for you and with you and around you, will soon come into being. That’s what were working on now.

Creet:

I see.

Marshall:

You do understand don’t you?

Creet:

Yes, I understand now Doctor dear, but this Akhenaten was puzzling me and I had a feeling that it was he, I had a feeling. [Laughter]

But thank you so much for enlightening me...

Marshall:

I must go my dear, I am sorry but I must go.

Creet:

Alright. Give my love to Akhenaten!

Marshall:

I will. My blessing and love to you.

Creet:

But Doctor dear?

Flint:

[Clears throat]

Creet:

Was he really Akhenaten?

Marshall:

He was.

Creet:

He was? Oh.

Marshall:

That should explain a lot of things. For Akhenaten was centuries before his time, he was a very advanced mentally...a mentally advanced soul.

Creet:

Oh. Mmm...

Flint:

[Sniffing]

Creet:

Oh dear. When next I come I hope there will be some talking, because I’ve got a lot to...

Mickey:

There’ll be plenty of opportunities to ask as many questions as you like.

Creet:

Mickey, Mickey darling?

Mickey:

What?

Creet:

Why don’t you tell me these things?

Mickey:

Well its very difficult.

Creet:

Did you know?

Mickey:

Yes I did, but I...well I didn’t know, I was trying to help really. because I thought if I spilled beans I’d be in trouble...

Creet:

Well I found out all by myself.

Mickey:

Well I think the Doctor knew what he was about and he just wanted...

Flint:

[Coughing]

Mickey:

...oh I don’t know, but the point is, why worry?

Creet:

I’m not worrying...

Flint:

[Laughing]

Creet:

...but I like to have things straight. You know? It’s interesting to me in a way because I keep on puzzling, but...

Mickey:

But surely a straight road is rather boring, one what wheedles around here and there is much more interesting...

Creet:

But he’s a rascal Mickey...

Mickey:

Of course he is, but then so are you!

Flint/Creet:

[Loud laughter]

Creet:

What is he doing with me, can you tell me?

Mickey:

He is trying to help you...

Flint:

[Coughing]

Mickey:

...and I think he has helped you and he’s trying to...

Creet:

Oh he's helped me a lot.

Mickey:

... give you information and evidence and help you along the pathway of spiritual and mental progress. But of course, it has to be done in the right way, not the way you think.

Creet:

I see.

Mickey:

You want it all lock, stock and barrel!

Creet:

Yeah. I see, I understand. It’s got...

Mickey:

You’ve got to get it in pieces, you’ve got to...Besides, look at the fun in the jigsaw puzzle; you fit the pieces in, you begin to see the picture.

Creet/Flint:

[Laughter]

Mickey:

Bye-bye.

Creet:

Bye-bye darling.

Flint:

Goodbye.

END OF RECORDING

This transcript was kindly created for the Trust by Paul Welsh in November 2018.

The recording was digitised from the original master tape by Jack Terrence Andrews.