The Leslie Flint Educational Trust

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The Doctor Franke séance


Recorded: April 6th 1964

"We have seen in your world what can be done by evil men."


Dr. Franke was killed at Dachau concentration camp during World War II,

because he would not do the work the Nazis wanted him to do.

He explains how many souls lingered there after their deaths.

Dr. Franke says he now works in a spirit 'hospital' to help those who pass over.

He explains that nothing is impossible if a person can think it...
 
NOTE:
Dr Franke speaks very slowly and very carefully at first.
His confidence and ability to communicate grows during the recording.

 

PLAY                                                                      VOLUME

 

Read the full transcript below, as you listen...

Present: Leslie Flint, George Woods, Betty Greene.

Spirit Communicators: Doctor Franke, Mickey.


Dr. Franke:

Hello.

Woods:
Hello?

Greene:
Good morning, friend.

Woods:
Morning.

Dr. Franke:
Good morning…

Woods:
Good morning.

Dr. Franke:
…to you. I am very pleased to come.

Woods:
So pleased you've come.

Dr. Franke:
It is very strange, this.

Woods:
Yes.

Dr. Franke:
I don't know if it is possible...

Woods:
Oh, we can hear you quite well friend.

Dr. Franke:
I would like very much to come to talk.

Woods:
We're very pleased for you to try.

Dr. Franke:
It is is funny - funny for me. I don't know anything much. This is difficult. I did not know of this when I was in your world. It is difficult, difficult, difficult, to know how to manage to speak in this box - this thing, this thing. Different thing. Not like I was expect…Some friend bring me here.  Some friend bring me here who was useful…No - used to it. He tell me that it is possible. I am most surprised. I come, I speak. Very difficult. My name…my name is Franke. Franke. In your language in England you say Frank, for it.

Woods / Greene:
Yes.

Dr. Franke:
I am so surprised. I am so surprised. I die…I die in the war - the war.

Woods:
Yes?

Dr. Franke:
I was in Camp. In Camp.

Woods:
Yes?

Dr. Franke:
Dachau. Not good place. Many, many people, ya. Many people. Oh terrible, terrible, terrible. I not know…I not know…

Woods:
Yes?

Dr. Franke:  
…if I come out. I die. Come out then, after I die. But long, long time I not leave camp. No. I very sad, very sad. People dread…dread…dreadful con…con…condit…conditions. I was doctor and try to make me do things I no like. At first I look after other people and they not too bad, but later I not like certain things they wish - want me to do. So I was killed…killed. Ya. I learn little English in…in camp and I knew little English before war.  Misery. All round…all round that place, even today, very bad conditions, very awful atmosphere. So much misery, so much unhappiness, so much cruelty go there on, that still in condition of atmosphere is bad vibration and in co-co-con-sequence - consequence, is not happy condition there.

Long time many people linger. Not altogether understand dead, they are. Many souls from this side come to rescue to help to do things, but even though this was good and much help was given, many of the rescuers, many of the people were people who themselves had come through that Camp in past times. There was many terrible things of course, but in spite of that, here and there were wonderful people who do so much.

Not all…not all g-g-guards, not all in con-control were bad. Many were, but some try to help little, where they could, but very difficult. Many try to escape, but very difficult. Very rare. Few people escape here and there, but very bad, very bad, very difficult. I don't understand good English yet but I try…

Woods:
You're doing very well.

Greene:
Dr. Franke, how did you eventually get out of your Earth bondage and…?

Dr. Franke:
Oh, that was after some time. I knew after a little while - after awhile I was dead, but somehow, I felt it was my duty to hang…how you say? To stay, to stay if I could help perhaps by thought and by prayer and by love, here and there. It was so terrible, but eventually I was advised - advised - advised to leave the condition.

For it was very bad for me and two friends, who I had known long time before, who had been with me in training before war, who also had died. Helped me, bring me over from your world into this world, where I was house…given house - house and where I was able to begin to see different aspects. Makes different outlook on life. Here I begin to understand more about my new life and I acc…I cept it - accept gradual, so I begin to have different mind, different thoughts. Much happier, happier thoughts, much brighter because I was out of the darkness of the Earth and the depressing and unhappy state. And here it was so wonderful to feel young and free and fit and everything. To be able to read again, books, to be able to walk free in the open air, to be able to do other things which I love to do when on Earth, before this terrible thing happened.

And many of my old friends, these two special friends that I have known, take me here and take me there, take me to the colleges the…where the students are. Where they learn and can study anything it seems, that interests them, particularly things appertaining to the new life. There were doctors too, I meet. They take me to place where we look after people who are…come here from the Earth whose mind is in terrible condition. For they have not been able to rid themselves of the old thoughts old ideas. So they are housed…housed in large place, like hospital or infirmary and there they are looked after, but it is an education of the mind. It is the transforming of the individual from the old material unhappy self, into a new being full of light, full of joy, full of happiness.  

In this I base my work. So, my real work is now in these large places to which sometimes certain people are brought whose minds are in the state of unhappiness and turmoil. And I help, and like many other souls here, to reinstate or to rehabilitate them into this new way of thinking, that they can rid themselves of all the old ideas and horrible things which still cling to them.

You know, it is very difficult to make people change immediately. It is sometimes impossible, because in moment a person is free of the body, does not mean that they are immediately free of the old ideas and the thoughts which has constituted all their lives themselves. A man is the same man after death as he was before: in his outlook, in his ideas, in his ideology or in his politics even. In every mental way he is the same person, because though the body is dead and has no more being for him, his self, his reality, his soul, his whole conception of life is what he has become through his experiences in a mental way.  

So the mentality of the individual is what lives in an astral [unintelligible] or spiritual or psychic form or shape, similar in outward appearance to the old body, once which was important when on Earth. It is the counterpart in which we inhabit of the Earth, the body. But it is much more sensitive and once we begin to think on the lines of spiritual things, then the lightness comes and the heaviness, it goes. Thoughts change and we change in consequence.

In this hospital - I call it that, though it is more than that, and you would not even first realise it was hospital, but even so, it is a form of hospital.  And it is a hospital for curing of the sickness of the mind or the thoughts, which must be changed - to help people to forget many things which it is better they should not remember, which hold them back, which still make them materially minded and, in consequence, retard their progress.  

So, we have to work very much perhaps like some of your psychologists or perhaps those whose task it is on Earth to try to trace back the causes which create the unpleasant effect. We have to know individuals, we have to understand them, we have to talk with them. We have to learn exactly what it is that is holding them back in their progress. And there are many different reasons and different things why a person does not adapt immediately or even after some time, into the fuller life here.  

They must first learn to undo, they must first learn to free themselves of all these preconceived ideas or phobias. And even religious things which are perhaps very strong in them. Indeed sometimes the religious type of individual is more difficult to deal with because, as you know, that often they think they are right and they're so sure. They are so adamant that they cannot be wrong, that only they are right. They are often the most difficult people to deal with.

But of course I am talking here about special cases for which we work and serve and help. But the average person, the average person who has an average outlook, who has no strong prejudices and whose life is fairly blameless, whose life is reasonable - they have not been unduly cruel or have not committed any great crime which could affect their progress. They - normal people, ordinary people - don't usually find much difficulty in soon adjusting themselves to their new vibration and new condition of life here. But there are many people of course, who come here so suddenly that it is great shock and in consequence, they do need often special treatment.  

Sometimes suicide cases or cases of murder or some who have died - like many of us did in the Camps - where, throughout the whole of the time we were there, there was nothing but sadness and depression and horror and all the horrible things that man can do one to another. All this was so strong, the whole atmosphere in the place itself, very, very difficult for some to quickly adjust themselves. It is very difficult to explain all this, but if people would realise that thoughts in themselves are powerful and that as a man thinks, so he is, no more, no less and he creates for himself his own heaven and hell by his thoughts, very important to remember.

Woods:
Could you tell us a little bit - what what your world is like on that side?

Flint:
[Sneezes]

Dr. Franke:
What is that?

Flint:
Oh sorry…

Dr. Franke:
I don’t know…

Woods:
…what what your world…

Dr. Franke:
I don't think if…if I tell you my life, my experiences, it may be so different to others because it is so complex, so vast and oh, one cannot explain fully these things. World…world of the spirit is vast, so vast that none of us can comprehend it. We only know a little glimpse of our own particular environment. My life of course, as I have told you now is happy and I love to work among the people especially those who come in this new…into this new life and whose needs are many.  

I love to minister, to help them to try to teach them and of course, in some cases it is difficult, but it is dealing with people whose needs are great that I find my happiness. To bring them new life, new illumination and understanding of love. To take away fear, which often is very strong in the minds of people, especially those who come here, as often they do, full of fear. You know, it is the most extraordinary thing how so many people fear. And often these fears they have are groundless are…are without foundation, but these fears have sometimes been implanted by those who have such strong convictions, that they make others fear where they should have faith, where they should have more trust.

It is not good to fear death. It is not good to fear God. It is not good to fear life. Life is an adventure. Life here is a glorious adventure to which everyone should look with eager heart and mind. To this great adventure, which all of us must share, all of us must eventually take this journey into what you call the unknown. Of course there are many in your world to whom it is unknown and yet it need not be unknown. Because those who seek shall truly find and those who have found, even though it be but a glimmer of light in the darkness of your world, can become illumination that is so strong, that it will lead out of the darkness the whole world.

We have seen in your world what can be done by evil men. We can see how one man driven by power and the lust for power and whose heart is turned away from good and whose mind is full of the desire for conquering other people and subjecting them and making his will felt upon them and the world. We have seen how an evil man can bring great destruction, great unhappiness to the world. We can see the power that can be wielded and what can be achieved when it is set in motion. How much more can be achieved by good men, whose minds and hearts are filled with love for their fellow human beings: who can by banding together and uniting in love and experience and knowledge with this truth fully revealed, how different could your world be?

We need men and women who are prepared to sacrifice if necessary, themselves in love and service to humanity. To show the path of righteousness and truth: to show the way out of the darkness into the light. We need those in your world who will act as instruments, who shall truly be instruments of God's will and powers and who shall guide those who dwell in the darkness of material things into the way of light and the spiritual.

Woods:
Could you tell us something about your life - the kind of world it is on that side - what sort of world it is, could you?

Greene:
Can you describe your house Dr. Franke, please?

Dr. Franke:
I have a very small house, but it suffice for me. I am not anxious for grand things. I am happy with simple things and simple people. When I say simple, it doesn't mean to say that they are simple, in the sense perhaps that some people mean that word. But simple in their desire for - what I suppose you would call - material things. Which after all, though they are in a sense, spiritual, in a sense also, they are material because, for instance, my house is very real.

It is solid, as solid as your house would be and it is small but quite pretty. It is what I suppose you would call [unintelligible]. It has only four rooms.  It is small like a country house. It has a very attractive garden, because I love nature and the flowers and the birds which sing in the trees.

I don't know how one can hope to make people in your world sometimes understand. When we talk about a house that is material and within the house there are things which you would expect to find in a house. To me they are all the things that would be necessary to make it comfortable, such as chairs and things of that nature. But we do not need heat to warm ourselves. There are no seasons in the same way in which you have.  There is no intense cold. Neither is there intense heat. Therefore we do not need fires, for there is no winter. At the same time there is warmth and there is light and yet it is not the light of the sun, for I do not see the sun in the sense that you can look into your sky and see in the sky the sun.  

But here there is illumination which is kindly and soft and beautiful. It illuminates the world in which we exist. And the flowers that grow, though to my knowledge, they are not planted, yet they are permanently there. And they have their own beauty. They do not need to be nursed or tended and they are never cut to put, as you would, into the house. All nature seems to be able to take care of itself. Man does not have to tend, although there are those who will and do, for a time, possibly because they assume it is necessary to tend their gardens.

But, it is so strange because it is as if the very thoughts of man can create for himself that which for him is the most best or most necessary. That is why when your friend here, he say to me, ‘describe your world’ I know of course that it is expect for me to describe my world. I describe my world as I know it or try to describe it. But every man who come to you from this side would describe to you exactly what he has experienced. But what his experience may be, may be perhaps very different to another. And if you can realise that this world is a world where thoughts are so powerful, that a man can create for himself, even at first perhaps unknowingly, the kind of conditions which are best for him.

It is as if it is a law, a natural law here, for man to enter into a condition or condition or state of being which is best suited for him. Of course I have explained a little of how some people's minds are so confused and whose conditions of thought are so bad, that they need to be tended. And their thoughts needed to be changed, by the good thoughts and the real thoughts of people who have knowledge - and they are taken to certain places for this. But most people entering into this world for the first time, are usually of course met by their loved ones. They're taken to the homes of their loved ones and they are treated like a lost soul that has been found. They are shown everything, but you must remember that even though you may show a soul from your world certain things, if it is not for them ready to see, they do not see in the same way. It is difficult to explain this, but a person cannot always understand something immediately.  

They have perhaps some vague idea of certain things which register within them. But the full illumination and the knowledge and experience, at even a lower stage of being, cannot be fully understood by them. They've got to learn how to ‘cleanse’ themselves. I suppose is a sort of…as if you have to purge yourself of so much that you felt was so important. For instance, a person coming here who was addict - what you say - to drink, would find it very difficult. And it would be, perhaps in some instances, necessary in the early stages, because of the thought force of his mind and the need and the urge for certain things - in this case drink - to have those things. But it is really in a sense, an illusion. You see, mind is creative. Thoughts are powerful. And any person who feel that things…that certain things are real or necessary or feel so necessary to him, those things will so be, but they have no reality - only in the mind of that individual.  

That is why some of these peoples in hospitals, as we call them here, who are being helped to change in their mind and outlook, do require certain things and they are given those things. When I say they are given those things, they are sometimes in certain instances or cases, allowed to have the illusion that they have this or that particular thing so necessary to them. But that eventually will pass from them. We have to be very tactful, we have to be very, even what you would call perhaps, [unintelligible], because we have to know our subject. We have to know our case. We have to study the individual and we have to realise how much we can hope that person will be able to achieve and what is the best way to do it, to help them.

Sometimes we have to pander to them. Sometimes we have to give them the impression that we are agreeing with them over certain things, but this is a slow process. But it is the only way sometimes, we can help people is to pander and to sometimes let them assume that what they think or what their ideal is, it may be right. And possibly for them at that particular stage of their evolution it is so. We cannot hurry change.  

Even death cannot hurry the change within man. Death may transport him from one existence to another, but until he himself allows himself to be affected to any great extent, by that change, so his mental outlook and attitude will, to some extent, bar him or affect him from fully realising or accepting and understanding. That it why certain types of individuals with strong convictions, they are the most difficult person to deal with. The person who has a firm belief that he is right and his particular, in this case, shall we say, religion, is the only way or the only one. They are often very difficult to deal with and to change the outlook some of these people is very hard.  

Nothing is worse than the bigot, the person whose voice is strident with the assurance that they know. And it is, if it were not sad, it could sometimes be very amusing. But we have to deal with every case individually. And remember that every person is a soul searching for illumination, perhaps without always realising they are searching for it. But everyone is waiting for something - often they know not what, but it is really the revelation of life. It is the knowledge that they have a path to tread. Sometimes it is not easy, that path. Even on this side. No one would like you to be under the impression that everything here is wonderful, everything here is as you would wish it to be. It cannot necessarily be like that because it would not be good. Because here we are here in a world of reality.  

It is true, let us remember, that when I talk about a world of reality, I am talking about a world which is real and vital and alive, in which people dwell on all different stages of being, according to themselves, according to what they are, what they have become. And in a sense there is also, we must remember, in the initial, early stages of coming here a…a condition or stage, if you like, of…of illusion. It cannot be otherwise. For a time there is this sort of, strange in between-ness; in between your world and this world. In a sort of condition of illusion of thought, which has to be gradually changed and they have to be taught and be shown how to adjust themselves.  

It is like children that have to be shown how to become adults. They have to be tended, they have to be guided, they have to be educated. They have to be shown the path. A child has many illusions. And as he gets more older and more wiser, that is, as the world sees it, he changes. Some of his childish illusions may not be bad and they will remain with him, because they are good. But many illusions are foolish things and they hold one back from from evolution.

Greene:
Dr. Franke, what is the hospital you work in, what is it like inside? Can you describe it?

Dr. Franke:
Oh it is like a vast house, this one. Like a very vast house in the country, with many rooms beautifully decorated in many different colours, different rooms in different shades. There are, in some cases of course, people who are in beds like in a ward. But these are invariably the new arrivals, who need to be tended and they perhaps have not even yet awakened to their new life. They are still in a kind of slumber. They are still, as it were, not fully conscious. Then of course, there are many rooms where there are lectures and there are many people who teach. There are many rooms where people may sit in comfortable chairs, as if they were in a lounge and they can read - and they do read too. There are books for them and even replicas of magazines that you have on earth too. This may sound so strange that people will laugh in your world.

But there are, on these mental planes, mental reproductions created by thought force, which in themselves become apparent and become, to the extent of the individual who is receptive, a reality. When people can realise that nothing is impossible where thought is, then thought can recreate or create all manner of things. After all, in your world, before you create something, it is in the mind. It has to be put into operation. It has to be created from substance. It has to be made by various people, contributing towards the common good or to whatever the article is, in this case for…for people's benefit or pleasure.

Here, these things can be created by thought force. This is a world where thought is predominant and more powerful and in consequence by the very thoughts of the individuals. And where, you must remember, where there is cohesion or where there is, how you say, where there is complete harmony, as there are on the more advanced spheres, then everything that is brought into being is created in a harmonious way and therefore, nothing jars and nothing is out of keeping. Everything is in tune, everything is right. There is nothing there that will irritate or cause concern.  Everything is conducive to joy and happiness and has its being in reality. Because the thought force, being so powerful, can create out of thought the reality of the objective or whatever it may be. I wish I could explain this but it is difficult.

Greene:
You say the rooms of the hospital are different colours. Therefore I take it that the patients are put into the room in a colour that is conducive to them, that they will be in harmony with. Is that right?

Dr. Franke:
Well, colour, colour, colour, plays for us a very important part. Colour can be used to help to quieten, perhaps, a patient who mentally is very disturbed. Of course also we use music [unintelligible] and we have wonderful music here. And all the various wards or rooms there is harmonious pleasing music, which is conducive to quietening and helping the individual and helping them to adjust their thoughts. Colour and music - we have all manner of colour, many colour which you do not have in your world. There are strange colours, some perhaps even which, if I could describe, you would not understand. And of course we don't necessarily just have any colour. There may be perhaps dozens of colours all blending, one into the other even in one room, which may sound to you rather strange. But if you could visualise a rainbow, you have some idea of the beauty of a room. But it is so harmonious, nothing clashes. I don’t know [unintelligible].

We have much beautiful material. People have the most beautiful wearing apparel - robes, I suppose would be best way to describe them. Of course, there again, in certain spheres, on the initial early spheres of coming, often there people wear clothes very similar to what they would have worn on earth. But this is due to their thoughts, they would not be happy if they were to suddenly be put into some beautiful robe. They would feel out of place. They would think, ‘oh dear, this is not right for me. I do look so stupid’. So they wear costume or clothe that is common or natural to them. That helps them to feel normal.

You see what we have to do? We have to be artful - I told you. Sometimes we have to try to make them think in a n…what is to them a normal way, before we can change their outlook and thought to accepting things which are much more advanced. We have to look upon them as children. We have to undo all the bad things that often the teachers on your side have taught them. That is one of our biggest difficulties; undoing what others have done on your side, which have created - well, which have created all manner of complication and difficulty for them. The worst people of course, are those who have strong, decided ideas. It's very difficult sometimes for them.

Perhaps next time I may come and with you, talk again?

Greene:
Thank you very much.

Dr. Franke:
I can't hold on no more.

Greene:
You’ve done very well.

Woods:
You’ve done very well…

Dr. Franke:
I hope it has been interest for you?

Woods:
…and it’s very kind of you to come.

Dr. Franke:
I look forward for this again. I learn better. I speak better for you.

Woods:
Yes.

Greene:
You’ve done very well.

Dr. Franke:
Bye. I must go.

Greene:
Thank you very much.

Woods:
Thank you very, very much.

Mickey:
Bye-bye.

END OF RECORDING

This transcript was created and kindly provided by Lorie McCloud.