Stephen Thomas Ward
October 1912 - August 1963
Stephen Ward séance
Recorded: September 2nd 1963
“They let me down...
It's a dirty business I’m afraid”
Note: This clear vintage recording contains some occasional light interference.
Please read the transcript below as you listen.
[This séance] was recorded on the 2nd of September 1963. Medium Leslie Flint.
Marshall:
Do
you know, I’ve also been looking forward to tonight.
Creet:
Oh,
yes.
Marshall:
Because this friend here,
Stephen...
Creet:
Yes?
Marshall:
...has
been very much looking forward to
this.
Creet:
Oh!
Marshall:
As a
matter of fact, he’s very calm...
Creet:
Yes.
Marshall:
...very
placid about it. In a way I'm rather
surprised that he’s come on so well. He’s rather taken to this
like a duck takes to water. I think it’s possibly partly due to the
fact that he’s still, in a sense of course, mentally that is, very
near the Earth.
Creet:
Yes.
Marshall:
Which,
under the circumstances, I think is very
understandable.
Creet:
Yes.
Marshall:
Erm...I
think, naturally, from what I have been able to gather, that he
feels, uh, that he should have fought on. I think he feels that he
rather threw in his hand. I
think that rather still worries him a bit. Uh, of course, there’s
no reason why he should be, in my opinion, unduly concerned or
worried about that aspect. But, erm, I suppose in a sense that is
natural, but it will change. He’ll change, in his realisation of
things.
I
think he feels that he might have stayed on your side and fought, and
as he'd fought so well in the...through the whole business
actually...
Creet:
Yes.
Marshall:
...that
he ought to have faced it out, because there
would have been repercussions and reoccurrence. I think
actually it wouldn’t have stopped. In fact, I'm sure this whole
business would have gone on, uh, to his benefit actually. I think if
he'd have gone to prison, which no doubt almost certainly he would
have done, his sentence would have been, uh, changed.
I
think there would have been an appeal and I think his sentence would
have been, uh, much less. I think he realises that now. But I think
that he felt and with the type of person that he was, highly strung
and very sensitive, I feel that he felt that all the weight was
against him. Because the evidence, such as it was, was very much
piled on against him.
Creet:
Yes.
Marshall:
And,
um, all the friends that he had or thought were his friends, deserted
him. I think he felt that he was a man who was rowing his own boat,
and no-one was giving him a hand and the waters were so stormy...I
think that the poor man felt that there was nothing to go on for. I
think he was driven to suicide, quite frankly by, well, by the whole
situation which had been brought into being and many of them by
his...well, partly by his friends.
Creet:
Yes.
Marshall:
I
mean, the situation got on top of him, to the extent that he felt he
could not face any more. And I think that possibly he also felt too,
within himself, that certain statements could have been made - which
he could have made and which other people could have made - which
would have practically cleared him and, in any case, could have
certainly altered the verdict.
But
I think that he was afraid. After all, he is only a human being. I
think he was afraid that...that he might have himself said certain
things which he might have regretted. I think he was a man, strange
as it may seem to many people, I am sure he was a man of great
integrity - a weak man in some senses, yes. But, um, he kept his
mouth shut to protect...
Creet:
Well, he could have
opened...
Marshall:
When he could have opened his
mouth to protect...to protect the very people who were, some of them
at least...
Creet:
[Unintelligible]
Yes.
Marshall:
...who were, who were the
cause of him being in the position he found
himself.
Creet:
Yes.
Marshall:
The
whole situation, the whole business, uh, I think, so played on his
mind in the last few days, that I think he felt he couldn’t face
any more.
Creet:
Well, I hope to goodness these
people who were so...to cowardly do come forward...
Marshall:
Well,
of course, the whole thing basically, whether one likes to admit it
or not...and even now he won’t say anything. I don’t know...I
think even if he comes to speak to you I don’t think, frankly, he
will tell you anything that will incriminate anyone else.
Creet:
No,
I am sure he won’t, that I do know.
Marshall:
If
he wouldn’t, if he wouldn’t say that on your
side...
Creet:
No.
Marshall:
...I’m
quite sure he won’t say it from this.
Creet:
No.
Marshall:
And
we have to accept that, uh...but I’m sure that there’s no doubt
about this; that the whole of this trial was basically political. He
was made a scapegoat.
Creet:
Yes.
Marshall:
And
I think he realised that and...
Creet:
Oh yes he
does.
Marshall:
...he
realised only too well throughout the whole of the trial,
everything was weighted against him, that he hadn’t a chance, and
there's no doubt that some of these girls deliberately were lying and
one wouldn’t like to say how much pressure was brought on them.
As
a matter of fact, one gathers, what I can gather from this is that a
certain amount of pressure was brought on those girls to say certain
things that obviously never even took place.
Creet:
Well,
I hope to goodness they suffer...for what they've
done.
Marshall:
But it isn’t altogether the girls'
fault. I am not condoning them and from what Ward...
Creet:
Well
what I really wanted to...
Marshall:
...from
what Ward tells me is, that behind that was something much more
sinister and that is the, the
establishment.
Creet:
Oh.
Marshall:
You
know you’ve got to face up to the fact that you cannot go against
the establishment, without the establishment; with its
power...
Creet:
Yes.
Marshall
...and
it’s, uh, position, treading its heel on your face.
Creet:
No.
Yes I know that.
Marshall:
I think Ward realised
that he had, uh, was a victim of the establishment. And I think that
the whole of that trial was, from what I can gather - a great deal of
it anyway - was a disgrace. And I think there's going to be...but I
think I told you before, I don’t know if Ward told you, but there's
going to be a tremendous amount of uh...uh, discussion.
Creet:
Yes,
you did tell me.
Marshall:
There’s going to be a
lot of, uh, newspaper and articles written, uh, it’s not
doing...certainly, it hasn’t done British justice any good; abroad,
and it certainly hasn’t helped this country.
You know, other
nations more or less, to some extent, saw nothing sinister or nothing
particularly unusual in someone having; a cabinet minister for that
matter, having an affair with a prostitute. Another country would
have hushed it up, and that would have been the end of it. But, um,
it seems that poor Ward was made the
scapegoat.
Creet:
Yes.
Marshall:
The
rest got free you see and, of course, very quietly crept
out.
Creet:
And what will really happen to him, you
know. Because suicides I believe...
Marshall:
I
don’t know why you should worry about that Rose. I thought you
understood sufficient about this to know, that even in the worst case
of suicide; that is, a case of suicide, uh, uh, where the person was
fully conscious and aware, uh, were in their right senses - that is,
to doing such a thing and taking that way out.
Even
in the worst case of suicide, there is no, in a sense, condemnation
on this...there is never any condemnation on this side in any
case.
Creet:
No, well that's what I
wanted...
Marshall:
But, what I am trying to say of
course, is - I'm perhaps not putting it very well - that, um, with
the case of Ward, with Stephen Ward, I think he feels...and this is
what most people feel, that passing from your world to this, doesn't
solve any problems. In other words, you are still left with the
problems.
Creet:
Yes. But Doctor dear, can't
we...can't we help him in any way?
Marshall:
Well
yes, I think one can and I am sure we will. And that is, that if he
comes from time to time, which I know he wants to come and I'm hoping
he'll come tonight, by speaking to him...but don’t, um, um...I
don’t want to give the wrong impression to you, and I'm sure you
are not the sort of person who would talk down to him...
Creet:
Oh,
good Lord no.
Marshall:
No don’t misunderstand me;
I had a feeling you might. What I mean is that, you know, so many of
these Spiritualistic circles, when a suicide is brought through or
some soul is brought through, not necessarily a suicide, for
help...the sitters have a habit of talking down to the person, as if
they are admonishing a naughty boy.
Creet:
Oh!
Marshall:
You
know, I am sure you are not like that. But I say this because I want
you to realise that this man Ward has, I hope he can’t hear me, um,
pride. Now
I don’t mean the wrong kind of pride.
Creet:
No.
Marshall:
I
think that he was a man who really was an extraordinary character. In
fact, the more I am beginning to know him, the more I begin to like
him...and, um, I wouldn’t, um...well I would bother of
course, with anyone who needed help. But I have learned to like him
so much and I really want to help him all I can. I feel
that...
Creet:
Oh good Doctor dear...
Marshall:
I
feel that we can help him, but we must never make it too
obvious.
Creet:
Oh no, well, well, whenever he comes
now and again...
Marshall:
The thing is to be as a
natural as possible and discuss whatever is brought up in a most
natural matter-of-fact way.
Creet:
Yes.
Marshall:
I
shouldn’t, if I were you, ask him any pertinent
questions.
Creet:
No.
Marshall:
If
he wants to discuss anything or open up on a subject, by all means
do. Actually, he’s beginning to settle down extremely well and, um,
I think he’s a little bit concerned, from the material point of
view, about certain writings, certain things that he’s left behind.
Because I think he wanted those things
published.
Creet:
Oh.
Marshall:
And,
uh, that there's some doubt as to whether these things will get
published. There will be a lot of things published, but what I mean
is, there are certain things of his own that he’s very anxious to
be published and, um, I don’t know whether I should say
this...
Creet:
Yes...
Marshall:
It’s
so difficult for me, but I think he thinks, uh, that certain
things that he deliberately left behind for publication are going to
be suppressed and that certain persons that are involved have an 'axe
to grind'.
But
whether they will be suppressed in this country I don't think
somehow, they will be suppressed in another. So, they'll probably
leak out.
Creet:
Well, I believe his memoirs or
something, uh, they’re going to be published in France and other
countries, but not in England.
Marshall:
Well...
Creet:
That’s
what I have read in the paper. I don’t know whether that is
true.
Marshall:
I think, uh, there’s going to be a
lot of, um, a lot of discussion about this trial. I think there is
going to be a lot of arguing about it.
Creet:
I hope
there is.
Marshall:
And I think that Ward’s whole
affair and the circumstances of his passing are going to arouse a lot
of controversy and a lot of discussion, and I think it will do a lot
of good.
Creet:
Yes, yes. I hope so.
Oh.
Marshall:
Certainly, he was painted much blacker
than he was.
Creet:
Poor old
man...
Flint:
Huh!
[Long
pause]
Ward:
Good evening Mrs
Creet.
Flint:
Mmm?
Creet:
Mmm?
Ward:
[Louder] Good evening Mrs Creet.
Creet:
Good
evening.
Ward:
Very nice of you to allow me to
come.
Creet:
Oh, I am so glad you have come again.
Dr Marshall has been talking about you and saying...
Ward:
So,
I believe.
Creet:
...how much better you
are.
Ward:
Oh, I’m alright. Much better than I was
last time when I spoke to you. I was a little bit
airyated.*
Creet:
Oh yes.
Ward:
But
I’m perfectly alright now. I am fully, fully aware of the whole
situation.
Creet:
Yes.
Ward:
I am
much more...much more able to see everything from every angle. I was
feeling perhaps, not embittered, but I was feeling very, sort of,
sorry for myself. I’m alright now, thanks very much.
Creet:
Oh
good, that was what I...
Ward:
I was hoping. I’m
hoping that I as I get a little more used to this sort of thing, I
may be able to talk to you about various
things.
Creet:
Yes.
Ward:
But
there’s certain things that I don’t think would be
very...
Creet:
But
anything...
Ward:
...very wise to discuss or
talk about.
Creet:
Yes.
Ward:
At
least, it would not make any difference to me if I spoke about them,
but it wouldn’t do to discuss them possibly, because I don’t wish
to create more unhappiness for others.
Creet:
Oh,
no. But if there is anything that we can do for you Doctor, Doctor
Ward...
Ward:
Oh no, there is nothing you can do for
me as far as I know.
Creet:
No.
Ward:
I
really don’t think so. I really don’t see how you possibly could,
except in giving me the opportunity to come and talk. Because I find
it very pleasant for one thing and secondly, I feel it’s nice to
have a friend that I can speak to and
well...
Creet:
Yes.
Ward:
...also
there are some things I would like to talk about later on...and
possibly I may be able to correct one or two things which have been
said, which are quite incorrect and possibly, who knows, at some
later time, it may be possible for me to discuss certain aspects of
these things with people on your side who, well, who are prepared to
listen.
Not
that possibly it would do any good, but it would be rather nice because there are certain people that I would like eventually to
contact them.
Creet:
Yes.
Ward:
But
at the moment, I know it’s out of the question.
Creet:
Well
you just let us know when you’re ready and we’ll see what can be
done.
Ward:
But I certainly do not wish to
incriminate....hello?
Creet:
No.
[Long
pause]
Creet:
Are you there?
[Long
pause]
Creet:
He did very well
Mamoose.**
Flint:
Mmm.
Creet:
Are
you there, Dr Ward?
[Long pause]
Creet:
He
was a musician too, you know.
Ward:
Sorry. Sorry,
sorry.
Creet:
Eh?
Ward:
Sorry. I
lost...I lost the link.
Creet:
Oh, you lost
it?
Ward:
Yes, sorry.
Creet:
Oh
well done to you.
Ward:
Ah, it’s very
difficult.
Creet:
Oh well done. You’re getting
quite, uh...
Ward:
I have no desire to incriminate
anyone else. But the extraordinary thing
was...
Creet:
What?
Ward:
The
extraordinary thing was...
Creet:
[Coughing]
Ward:
...that
I did absolutely nothing that would incriminate anyone. Actually, all
the incrimination was done by other people.
Creet:
Yes.
Ward:
I
didn’t seek it and I didn’t [give] anything that would
incriminate anyone. The odd thing was, and the whole of this business
was forced on me, I tried to avoid the issue for everybody’s sake.
At least...and I quite honestly I wasn’t so concerned about myself
as some people may have thought.
Creet:
That I
realise, I...
Ward:
I was much more...much more
concerned with people whose names were, well, whose names were
household words, I mean, people who were really so well known. I
tried to protect them in the beginning, but in the end, they let me
down.
Creet:
Yes. Yes. Yes, I can read between the
lines and whatever I read in the newspapers, I thought that was the
case.
Ward:
I bear no ill will. I would like you to
realise that I bear no ill will at all.
Creet:
You
have no what?
Ward:
Ill will.
Creet:
No,
ill will. No that’s right. That's good.
Ward:
And
I...I don’t want anyone to suffer.
Creet:
No.
No.
Ward:
But I do feel...
Creet:
Well
that's a sign...
Ward:
...that
if certain...I do feel that if certain people had spoken on my behalf
who could have easily have spoken, it could have made a
completely different picture. It could have created quite a different
aspect on the whole thing. But you know, these people were thinking
of themselves all the time. They...they deliberately kept out of
court. In
fact, some of them...well I won’t say that, but some of
them...
Creet:
Oh I know, I know...
Ward:
Some
of them...some of them, well, were actually...forced to stay
out.
Creet:
Yes.
Ward:
It's a dirty
business I’m afraid. Funny thing is, I did so little really,
fundamentally, that was wrong. I did some foolish things, of course I
did. I don’t dispute that. But at the same time, I don’t really
think I did anything terribly, terribly wrong.
Creet:
[Oh,
it doesn't bother us. We've all done] foolish things.
Ward:
It
just happens that I was unfortunate. In as much that I was...well I
like to be 'in the swim', let’s face it.
Creet:
Yes.
Ward:
I
like to be...be...be...be with the people that
mattered.
Creet:
Yes.
Ward:
I see
how foolish that was now. I paid for my mistake in that, I can assure
you.
Creet:
Well I don’t think it was foolish at
all, because after all you were an artist weren’t you and you
liked, uh...
Ward:
Yes. And it's quite true, let me
say this...
Creet:
And also a
musician of some kind?
Ward:
Yes,
sort of. Well I wouldn’t say I was terribly good at that,
but I very fond of it. But I was artistic and, quite frankly, I
got..I got just as much pleasure, perhaps looking back now I
realise it was more pleasure, out of my artistic abilities than
anything else.
Creet:
Yes.
Ward:
But
I was susceptible to the charms of women, so...
Creet:
Oh
well naturally, yes.
Ward:
That
was nothing unusual after all. It just happened that certain
of these girls well, uh...
Creet:
Yes...
Ward:
...got...got
mixed up with certain peoples that I introduced. I mean, quite
frankly, I had no particular...I got nothing out of it...
Creet:
You
did a lot...
Ward:
Poor me. I thought I was doing a
good turn!
Creet:
That’s it yes. You were trying
to help a lot of them, weren’t you?
Ward:
I tried
to help several of them.
Creet:
Yes.
Ward:
And
goodness me I did. I did more for one or two, than anyone else would
have done.
Creet:
Yes.
Ward:
I
don’t...but still, I would rather not discuss it.
Creet:
No
darling, you just don’t discuss it. Whatever you feel inclined to
say, just say it.
Ward:
Dr Marshall made me laugh
just now.
Creet:
Why?
Ward:
He says
you want a photograph of me.
Creet:
[Laughing]
Well how...how does he know?
Ward:
I don’t know.
He just told me a few minutes ago when I broke off.
Creet:
Oh
yes, you know...
Ward:
He said...he said that you
want a photograph of me.
Creet:
Yes.
Ward:
What
ever should you want a photograph of me for?
Creet:
Oh
I don’t know. Because, uh, I...I admired you in a great way.
Tremendously.
Ward:
Well I don't know why...after
all I was very ordinary person really. That’s the funny part about
it when you analyse the whole of this silly
business...
Creet:
Yes.
Ward:
I was
a very ordinary person.
Creet:
Oh...
Ward:
And
yet there was all this fuss and bother. I didn’t really do anything
that was so dreadful. In fact, a lot of
the things I’ve been...I was accused of, I didn’t even know
anything about and certainly didn’t do
them.
Creet:
[Laughing]
Ward:
And
if my male friends were interested in some girl that I
knew...
Creet:
Yes.
Ward:
What they
did apart from...was nothing to do with me, and after all is said and
done, why should I bother?
Creet:
[Laughing]
Ward:
I’m
not responsible.
Creet:
No.
Ward:
But
I got 'the can', I took 'the can' for it all.***
Creet:
Poor
man. Doesn’t matter...
Ward:
All the worry it
caused...
Creet:
Well you are well out of it now,
aren’t you?
Ward:
Yes, I suppose I am really. Yes,
I am of course. That’s silly of me to say that. I am out of
it.
Creet:
And look at the wonderful work you can do
on your side, once you get used to the vibrations and
everything.
Ward:
Yes, that's very nice of you to
say that.
Creet:
No, it’s really true. I’m
sure...
Ward:
Yes, well I have that to find out and
I’ll let you know about it.
Creet:
Yes.
[Laughing]
Flint:
[Laughing]
Creet:
I’ve
ordered a photograph of yours, I’m going to put it...
Ward:
Good
Lord! Don’t tell me...you don't mean to tell me they're on sale in
the shops?
Creet:
What?
Ward:
Don’t
tell me they are selling my photograph in the shops. Where are you
getting it from?
Creet:
I don’t know. A friend of
mine knows an American and its coming from New York or somewhere. I
don’t know from where.
Ward:
My
God!
Creet:
Why?
Ward:
Nothing. It
strikes me as rather odd...
Creet:
[Laughing]
Ward:
...that
you should get a photograph of me from New York. But I suppose the
American paid...
Creet:
I will have it in this room.
So, you look out for it when you come again.
Ward:
Oh,
I might even sign it for you.
Creet:
[Laughing]
You might sign it, you say?
Ward:
Yes. Why
not?
Creet:
Ooh, wouldn’t it be wonderful if you
did?
Ward:
Well, I’ll see what I can do about
it.
Creet:
Mmm...wonderful.
Ward:
I
can ask Marshall how it’s done.
Creet:
Yes.
Ward:
He’s
a good chap, isn’t he?
Creet:
Oh, he is a lovely
soul.
Ward:
I must say, you are very kind to me. I
appreciate it very much.
Creet:
He’s a lovely
soul. He's done such a lot of good for me.
Ward:
You
know it’s too funny for words really, you know.
Creet:
What’s
that?
Ward:
With my
reputation...
Creet:
Yes?
Ward:
Some
people would say it’s very risky trying to get in touch with
me.
Creet:
[Laughing]
Flint:
[Laughing]
Creet:
He
likes you very much; Dr Marshall.
Ward:
Well, I like
him...[unintelligible]. He’s been very kind to me
and...
Creet:
And he'd be a great help to you you
know Doctor, a great help. Two doctors together.
Ward:
Yes.
A bit old fashioned, but he’s quite
pleasant.
Creet:
[Laughing]
Flint:
[Laughing]
Creet:
Oh
I read about, in one of the papers, about
you...
Flint:
[Coughing]
Creet:
...curing
a girl who was dumb and then made her speak. It was very
interesting.
Ward:
Well
its very nice of them to drag up my good works when I am
dead.
Creet:
[Laughing]
Flint:
[Laughing]
Ward:
[Unintelligible]
away don’t you think?
Creet:
[Oh,
don’t] talk about being dead, you are very much alive
now.
Ward:
Well I am dead. Technically I’m
dead.
Creet:
Ah technically, but look at what you
will be able to do from your side now.
Ward:
You
keep on saying that; what I'll do from this side. I’d rather, in a
sense, have spent a few more years on yours if I could have had them
in peace and quiet and enjoyed myself.
Creet:
[Laughing]
Ward:
I
wasn't allowed to enjoy myself, so God knows if I'm going to be
allowed to enjoy myself over here. Let’s hope
so.
Creet:
[Laughing]
Flint:
[Laughing]
Ward:
You
don’t see lovely moral codes over here
anyway.
Creet:
[Laughing]
Flint:
[Laughing]
Creet:
Anyhow
you’ve got a great sense of humour.
Ward:
It is
necessary...[unintelligible]
Creet:
What a
good thing that is...
Ward:
It is
necessary.
Creet:
Mmm.
Ward:
Do you
know what I fancy most? It will sound stupid to
you.
Creet:
What?
Ward:
I fancy a
damn good cup of coffee.
Creet:
Ooh! Do you know, I
read about that. You...they...
Ward:
I don’t know
why that should be, because, quite frankly, I suppose being a
disembodied spirit I shouldn’t have any bowels to put the coffee
in, but...
Creet:
But would you...
Ward:
...maybe
it's because I’m speaking and therefore coming down onto, what you
call, a material level. But, um, funny...I would like...
Creet:
One
of your friends you know, Warwick his name was, he's wrote very
nicely about you in the papers and he said the coffee was going all
day and all night...
Ward:
Yes, don’t remind
me...
Creet:
Yes. [Laughing]
Ward:
All
I can have, I suppose, is a sort of realisation of
it.
Creet:
Yes.
Ward:
Mind you, I
know this sounds stupid, but I have had coffee over here. But now I
come to talk to you, I don’t really know if I’ve had it or
imagined I’ve had it.
Creet:
Oh
yes...
Ward:
Possibly it must have been in my
imagination.
Creet:
Yes.
Ward:
Anyway,
I must talk about all these things and more important things later. I
must go now.
Creet:
Alright.
Ward:
I’m
so sorry.
Creet:
Perhaps we’ll have a cup of
coffee and you might...
Ward:
Yes.
Creet:
...get
the aroma of it?
Ward:
Would be very interesting
wouldn’t it?
Creet:
[Laughing]
Well its very nice of you to come and I hope you'll come
again.
Ward:
Well I certainly will, if I may. It’s
been very nice talking to you. I’ll try and talk about something
intelligent next
time.
Creet:
Alright.
Ward:
Bye-bye.
Creet:
Bye-bye.
Ward:
Thank
you.
Marshall:
Well Rose, he didn't do so bad, did
he?
Creet:
Oh Doctor, he's
wonderful.
Marshall:
This business of the coffee is
rather interesting because...
Creet:
Yes?
Marshall:
...actually,
as you probably know, when a person first comes over here, their
memory of material things is very strong and he is very strong at the
moment. And they do have, um, uh, things that they want; such as
coffee and so on [and] if they want to, why not? It’s
all a mental thing, there’s no real reality as such. But to...to
him it’s a reality.
Creet:
Yes.
Marshall:
Although,
when he comes back like this, he probably thinks that what happened
or what has happened since his passing, to some extent, was a kind of
dream state.
You
see, it’s a very difficult state to be in and this is something
which happens to so many. It takes a little time for them to adjust
themselves, but he will. He is a quick learner.
Creet:
Oh
yes.
Marshall:
He’s a very nice
fellow.
Creet:
Very nice.
Marshall:
And
I think he is going to make excellent progress.
Creet:
Oh,
yes. Do look after him Doctor...
Marshall:
And
so...there is no need to worry about him because, believe me, he was
far from being a sinner; he was far more sinned against, than a
sinner.
Creet:
Of course. Of course. That’s why we
worry about him so much.
Marshall:
And for God’s
sake girl, keep that damn temperature of yours down, and don’t get
so worked up. Be calm and don’t get upset.
Creet:
Well
I feel better now.
Marshall:
Well
I hope you do.
END OF RECORDING
*airyated
= a seldom used word, which means 'agitated' or
'over-excited'.
**Mamoose = Rose Creet's private nickname for Leslie
Flint.
***got the can / took the can = got blamed / took the
punishment.