The Leslie F​lint​ Tr​ust

Present: Leslie Flint, George Woods, Betty Greene.

Communicators: Oliver Lodge, Mickey.

Greene:

Come along friend, we can...

Woods:

Come along friend, we can hear you.

Flint:

[Sniffing] I wonder who that is? It's not Marshall is it.

Woods:

No. It's somebody else, that was. I can hear him quite well. Quite a different voice altogether.

Lodge:

[Whispering]

Woods:

Yes?

Lodge:

I’m not quite sure if you can hear me or not.

Woods:

Oh yes, we can...

Greene:

We can hear you quite well.

Woods:

...quite well.

Lodge:

It's some considerable time since last I was able to speak.

Woods:

Yes, well...

Lodge:

This is Lodge here.

Woods/Greene:

Oh Lodge ! Yes...

Lodge:

Good morning.

Woods/Greene:

Good morning.

Lodge:

This is, um...

Woods:

Very nice of you to come through.

Lodge:

I am very happy indeed, to be able to come, if only for a few minutes. But I must...

Woods:

We're very glad.

Lodge:

...must say that it's such a long time since last I spoke, that I'm rather out of the habit.

Woods:

Yes well, we'd be very glad if you'd give us a talk about something.

Lodge:

I am tremendously interested, of course, in the tremendous advances that have been made on your side scientifically...

Woods:

Yes.

Lodge:

...in many different fields.

Woods:

Oh yes.

Lodge:

And we are and have been, for a very long time, working on this side, on a method of communication between our world and yours that will be accepted eventually I’m sure, scientifically. And we’re hoping eventually, to be able to make communication in such a way, from a scientific aspect, that no one could possibly deny the authenticity and reality of it.

Whether we shall completely ever do away with mediums as such...I think somewhere the human element obviously must be - and cannot be done without. I think there must be this human element.

Even though we may produce scientific instruments that will make possible communication between the two worlds, we shall never quite, I'm sure, be able to do without the help, in some capacity, of a medium. The only thing is, that it will not obviously be in the same sense or form as is now used.

In Russia there seems to be a great deal of interest in this subject. Although it's mostly on a scientific aspect, certain scientists are very interested in communication and are already experimenting on certain lines. I think it may well be from Russia that we shall have this first indication of really scientific communication, with the aid of instruments.

Woods:

That's very interesting.

Lodge:

So little is understood, even now, about our world and communication. And mediumship, by its very nature, must be a very fluctuating thing and we are subject to all sorts of conditions, far beyond your comprehension.

But mediumship, good mediumship, is very rare. Indeed, one might say that it's by no means as common as it was in my Earthly time. Then, we seemed to have a variety of mediums, of all types and particularly, very powerful physical mediums...

Woods:

Yes.

Lodge:

...which was a great asset and enabled us to conduct experiments and satisfactorily prove survival, as far as I personally was concerned and many others.

Today, the mediumship seems to be more on a mental level. This is alright in its way, but it does not lend itself so well, so easily, to scientific investigation. But there is a new...

Woods:

Yes? We can hear you quite well. A new...?

Come along please, we can hear you.

Very interesting that was...

Greene:

Yes.

Woods:

Do please carry on.

Lodge:

...and the tremendous progress that has been made scientifically since my time, scientifically. Of course, there are certain aspects of it that distress one. But many of the things that have already been discovered, and other things yet to be brought into the light; if they can be used, as we hope and pray they will be used for the benefit of man, they will prove a tremendous blessing.

But of course, as you can well imagine, my main interest is really in the scientific aspect of this whole subject. Although I speak in this fashion to you through the agency of an instrument or medium, I look forward so much to the time when it may be possible, in fact we are sure it will be possible, by the process of a scientific mechanism, machinery, be able to tune in, in such a way, to a higher rate of vibration, far beyond the human ear, as you understand it, on a rate so unique in itself, it will have to be brought down, be transformed, be transferred, as it were, to an audible sound and speech eventually.

After all, this is exactly what, in a sense, one does when one communicates in this particular fashion. It's a transmission of one’s thought into sound and being reproduced, vibrating the atmosphere, creating sound - perhaps in a sense, one might almost say, recreating it.

But the point is, that we have a method which we are now working on, which we feel we shall be able to reproduce, through instruments, scientific instruments, sounds; the voices of people long since, as the world calls it, 'dead'.

The mastery of this method is not yet complete. But there are those who, for various very good reasons perhaps, are not with...are not prepared to, at this stage, come forward with any particular information. But I think we may say with absolute assurance, that it is not very far off before Russia, certain scientists in Russia, who are experimenting on certain lines, will stumble - rather than perhaps from the point of view of deliberately seeking, but in seeking something else, they will stumble - across this method, which we are trying to help them with.

Their idea of course, is to produce certain instruments to have communication on certain wave lengths, on vibrations rates, with certain, if possible, seers. Already, to some extent, this has been successful. They have been receiving pulsations and they have been receiving certain sounds which are outside - indeed, a long way outside - the range of Earthly sound.

But we know that accidentally, rather than intentionally, because they do not know of our help in this; but they will stumble, they will be receiving messages which we are sending out, which will be transmitted over a long period, which will be brought into sound on Earth. But this is something I don’t feel, at the moment one can go into too deeply. America too is on similar lines, but I don't think, in fact I know, they are not so far advanced in this.

This anxiety, this desire to discover more of outer space, to discover what the various planets are like, what they consist of, what the conditions would be, should a man land and so on...well, they are not, of course, interested - indeed, they are not even aware, of the possibility of man, who once lived on Earth, living in...on spheres in the atmosphere, communicating.

They are more concerned with worlds which they have been aware of for sometime which are gradually coming closer and closer by the help of science, they are being brought into a great reality. But they are going to discover, much to their surprise, worlds of human beings who once inhabited Earth and who are still continue to live in a higher field of activity, because it will be mind reaching out. In other words, it will be thought forces, reaching out to man that will be...which will...which will be picked up.

This is something they are not anticipating or expecting. But we are making full use, taking full advantage, of what they are doing on your side, scientifically; that we can use it, to some extent, to prove our identity, to prove our reality, to prove that we truly do exist, that there is a world after death, physical death, in which millions of souls of all nationalities are still existing and developing and evolving and have a greater intelligence, and a greater response to life.

This is the living reality of which I speak, which we are hoping to eventually, as I have already said, scientifically prove to those in your world who are, at the moment, not aware of what is going on, but who will be surprised at certain things that will happen. They will at first, no doubt, think that they are in communication with intelligences from other planets. But it will be made clear to them that the intelligence is of the individuals and souls who are trying desperately from this side to communicate. It will be a tremendous revelation and we hope that it will eventually bring a greater understanding among the people of Earth.

We can see much of the futility of the conditions which have been created through their ignorance and indeed, through their intolerance. And we are very distressed, of course, when we look into your world and see the terrible, terrible conditions which have arisen through man's intolerance and foolishness and we are anxiously hoping to prevent catastrophe.

And we feel that if we can break through and do this in that scientific way of which I speak, it will deter man from going to the brink, the very abyss. We are very much concerned when we see your present world and the terrible, terrible state which man has allowed himself to get into.

Science, properly used, properly applied, is a blessing to man. Much that is given to man through science could mean for man, a better way of life and a much happier one. But there are the limited few who see it, often, as a weapon which can be used in defence - so they say - or war.

And this is, of course, the appalling fact; that instead of being used for man's good, it is often used for man's destruction. We have seen it in the past and want to avoid it in the future. We who come from this side, particularly those of us who come with an idea of being of service and of being of real value and help to your world, are distressed and appalled, of course, when we see the state and condition of your world.

We are concerned with proving, if we can and I’m sure we can eventually, in this scientific way of which I try to give you some idea. But it will be, it must be. The time is not far distant when there will be such a scientific aspect of communication. There will be no doubts and it will be universally accepted and then perhaps, we shall see the true beginning of the 'brotherhood of man'.

We shall see many of the old barriers knocked down and we shall see that man has realised, perhaps for the very first time, how vital and necessary it is for him to band together and break down the barriers that separate - the barriers of creed, the barriers of religion and politics - these barriers that man has built up over the centuries of time.

We are hoping and praying that it may not be too long before the first fruits of our labour will become apparent. But you will be hearing - and I make this as a definite prophecy - you will be hearing very soon, I feel sure, certain things which will give you some idea and knowledge of that of which I try to convey. Certainly there will be the beginnings of this breakthrough. It’s not so far off, particularly in Russia where science has really progressed...

You know, it is to us the most amazing thing. Russia - which was only, less than fifty years ago or fifty years ago, was one of the most, if not the most backward nation in the world, in which there was no opportunity for the people whatsoever, to progress - have come now to become really, scientifically, the leading nation in the world. They have become a taut-knit nation.

I know there are many aspects which one might condemn and I'm not here to condemn, but scientifically I suppose, I must speak purely of that aspect...the amazing technical, scientific advancement that has been made by these people who, fifty years ago, could neither read nor write and had no schooling and no opportunity. It, to me, is the most extraordinary thing. If they can make this advance, as they have done in roughly fifty years, what they will achieve and may achieve in the next twenty-five alone is fantastic.

And one has to say, that it is from Russia, from the scientific point of view, that one may expect to see these advances. Although I don't think America is so very far behind. But I feel, from the point of view of scientific communication between our world and yours, it is in Russia that we shall see the first signs.

There seems to be more advancement there and we certainly are working with certain scientists, in the hope of producing something very definite in the very near future. So, if it is published, as I should imagine eventually it will be brought into light, I don't think it's something that we would want to hold back, because it would be of no value in a material sense. It's purely something of the mind.

The Russians, for a long time, have been piercing the veil. They have been experimenting scientifically, with thought force and power of thought and what it can do, what it can achieve. They've been very active on a mental plane, on a mental level. Very, very advanced indeed. You will see this, I tell you this, very shortly, you will see the beginning of this.

Anyway, I'm very interested in what you, dear friends, are doing. I know there are difficulties. There are bound to be limitations of a certain kind, but I know that you do your utmost. And I think you are very fortunate, in as much, that you have got this mediumship. But you know, as much as one may admire it, good mediumship - which is rare - we are looking forward to a scientific breakthrough. This is something I'm most, most anxious about and I'm most concerned with.

Well, I don't think I can stay.

Woods:

Oh, Sir Oliver?

Lodge:

Yes?

Woods:

Sir Oliver, could you...I wanted to ask you something now you've come through. About these flying saucers; are they true or not true? Are they...do they come from other planets?

Lodge:

But of course there are other planets, who are endeavouring to make contact or are curious or interested in your world. Just the same as your world or scientists, certain scientists, and peoples are interested in other planets. Of course they do exist, and of course there is a lot of nonsense, no doubt, talked and a lot of things which don’t apply.

But of course there are entities, souls, who are trying to break through in a scientific way from other planets into your world and who are in a position, and I would say in some senses, more advanced and are trying to make contact in their own way. But, I think I can say with absolute truth, that of course they are very apprehensive.

You see, you must not think that souls on other planets, who are endeavouring to communicate, or at least are interested in your world, are not unaware of the mentality of the mass.

Woods/Greene:

Quite. Yes.

Lodge:

You see, you have got to accept that fact that there is every reason for them to be suspicious of the motives of the peoples of Earth, who, for generations, have lived by war. And who have, whatever advance scientifically...at least many of the scientific advances materially, that have been made, have been used for destruction rather than for good. You see, there is apprehension on certain planets, where there is a realisation of things of Earth, because of the attitude of mind.

You see, you cannot avoid the mass mind which generates in your world, which pierces the etheric conditions around your world. If you could see the etheric vibrations and conditions around your world, you would understand and realise why there must be apprehension on various spheres and planets. Even with ourselves who come to communicate.

We are very conscious of this very strong, powerful etheric force around your world, which is pushed out constantly by millions and millions of minds and thoughts, which in themselves are not good. They are very heavy. They are concerned with materialism to such a degree and there is so much fear. There is a tremendous force of which you know nothing, which is around your world, which makes it very difficult for communication, apart from anything else.

It is an amazing thing that you do receive the communications that you do. Because if you could see as I see it, many of us are aware, the conditions around your Earth are appalling.

[Sound of Flint's dog.]

Lodge:

This is brought about by man himself, by the very thoughts that he generates all the time. There is a terrible...which to us, I suppose you could say, to us is like a kind of fog. It’s a terrible atmosphere around your world. The whole of your world is living in fear. All the time you are living, as it were, on the very edge of a precipice.

You never know quite what the next day is going to bring forth. You have had certain indications recently, of what can happen accidentally. But my goodness me...I don’t think the people of Earth realise that all the time, every second of their living moment, you might say, is fraught with danger. You have so much power of destruction in your world at the present moment; all ready to be set off at a moment's notice and I don't think humanity realises what it has done to itself.

It's built up a tremendous stockpile of force and power of destruction. The whole world is full of fear and intolerance. The brotherhood of man has been pushed into the background. The churches do nothing. They side with governments, they side with force, if necessary. 

They pretend to be pacifistic and yet at the same time they are far from pacifistic. At the same time they are supposed to follow Christ, the man of God, the Prince of Peace, the man who had nowhere to lay his head...and yet all the time they deny him in their very thoughts and their actions by supporting these things.

Why doesn't the Church come out, as it should do, in a vast body of power and strength and denounce this horror which man has built? This terrible condition under which you live, this intolerable situation which man has brought upon himself through fear.

Greene:

Sir Oliver, may I ask you something?

Lodge:

Yes, please do, but I don't think I can stay.

Greene:

Oh, uh, with the saucers again; people who have seen them, they say they can feel terrific spiritual feeling when they...when they are near them. As if they...spiritual vibrations...

Lodge:

Well of course, I think that's perfectly true, that they would and they must. Because the motives and the desires of the souls who are trying to link up with your world, from whatever planet or sphere they may come, is for good.

We are concerned...every individual, every soul is concerned with the welfare of man, for the good of man. But you see, we see all the dangers. We see how you are, all the time, preparing, in every sense...it's not only physical, it's mental too.

You see the whole atmosphere in your world, to us, is appalling. Man has created so much havoc in the past and now he has weapons which, quite frankly, that there could be nothing left. It would only need a few to be set off. And you've had an indication recently with this Spanish business...

Greene:

Yes.

Lodge:

Well, quite honestly, it should prove to people the terrible danger - even by sheer accident - under which you exist today. To me it is frightening, to me it is appalling, to me it is something which I find almost unbelievable; that people with intelligence and reasoning power, particularly those who profess to have spiritual beliefs and spiritual desires, can allow themselves to sit back and do nothing. To me it is an extraordinary state of affairs, but I'm afraid I can’t stay...

May God bless you, I must go. Goodbye.

Greene:

Thank you so much for coming.

Woods:

Thank you so much for coming through...

Greene:

It's been lovely today...

Woods:

Thank you very much. We're very grateful.

Mickey:

Bye-bye.

Greene:

Cheerio Mickey. See you next Monday.

Mickey:

Yes, bye-bye.

Greene:

Bye-bye love.

Woods:

Thank you Mickey for all you've done.

END OF RECORDING

This transcript was created for the Trust by K.Jackson-Barnes.