Oliver Lodge séance
Recorded: April 25th 1966
"So little is understood even now,
about our world and communication..."
Sir Oliver Lodge was a great supporter of mediums and
spirit communication during his lifetime.
He returns here to speak to George Woods and Betty Greene
25 years after his own death.
He refers to a new scientific method of spirit communication
and he ponders on the idea whether there
will ever come a time that mediums will not be required...
Note: This 50 year old recording has been enhanced and is not to modern standards.
Please read the full transcript below as you listen...
Greene:
Come
along friend, we can...
Woods:
Come along friend, we
can hear you.
Flint:
[Sniffing] I wonder who that
is? It's not Marshall is it.
Woods:
No. It's
somebody else, that was. I can hear him quite well. Quite a different
voice altogether.
Lodge:
[Whispering]
Woods:
Yes?
Lodge:
I’m
not quite sure if you can hear me or not.
Woods:
Oh
yes, we can...
Greene:
We can hear you quite
well.
Woods:
...quite well.
Lodge:
It's
some considerable time since last I was able to speak.
Woods:
Yes,
well...
Lodge:
This is Lodge here.
Woods/Greene:
Oh Lodge ! Yes...
Lodge:
Good
morning.
Woods/Greene:
Good morning.
Lodge:
This
is, um...
Woods:
Very nice of you to come
through.
Lodge:
I am very happy indeed, to be able
to come, if only for a few minutes. But I must...
Woods:
We're
very glad.
Lodge:
...must say that it's such a long
time since last I spoke, that I'm rather out of the
habit.
Woods:
Yes well, we'd be very glad if you'd
give us a talk about something.
Lodge:
I am
tremendously interested, of course, in the tremendous advances that
have been made on your side
scientifically...
Woods:
Yes.
Lodge:
...in
many different fields.
Woods:
Oh yes.
Lodge:
And
we are and have been, for a very long time, working on this side, on
a method of communication between our world and yours that will be
accepted eventually I’m sure, scientifically. And we’re hoping
eventually, to be able to make communication in such a way, from a
scientific aspect, that no one could possibly deny the authenticity
and reality of it.
Whether we shall completely ever do away
with mediums as such...I think somewhere the human element obviously
must be - and cannot be done without. I think there must be this
human element.
Even though we may produce scientific
instruments that will make possible communication between the two
worlds, we shall never quite, I'm sure, be able to do without the
help, in some capacity, of a medium. The only thing is, that it will
not obviously be in the same sense or form as is now used.
In
Russia there seems to be a great deal of interest in this subject.
Although it's mostly on a scientific aspect, certain scientists are
very interested in communication and are already experimenting on
certain lines. I think it may well be from Russia that we shall have
this first indication of really scientific communication, with the
aid of instruments.
Woods:
That's
very interesting.
Lodge:
So little is
understood, even now, about our world and communication. And
mediumship, by its very nature, must be a very fluctuating thing and
we are subject to all sorts of conditions, far beyond your
comprehension.
But mediumship, good mediumship, is very rare. Indeed, one
might say that it's by no means as common as it was in my Earthly
time. Then, we seemed to have a variety of mediums, of all types and
particularly, very powerful physical
mediums...
Woods:
Yes.
Lodge:
...which
was a great asset and enabled us to conduct experiments and
satisfactorily prove survival, as far as I personally was concerned
and many others.
Today, the mediumship seems to be more on a
mental level. This is alright in its way, but it does not lend itself
so well, so easily, to scientific investigation. But there is a
new...
Woods:
Yes? We can hear you quite well. A
new...?
Come along please, we can hear you.
Very interesting
that was...
Greene:
Yes.
Woods:
Do
please carry on.
Lodge:
...and the tremendous
progress that has been made scientifically since my time,
scientifically. Of course, there are certain aspects of it that
distress one. But many of the things that have already been
discovered, and other things yet to be brought into the light; if
they can be used, as we hope and pray they will be used for the
benefit of man, they will prove a tremendous blessing.
But of
course, as you can well imagine, my main interest is really in the
scientific aspect of this whole subject. Although I speak in this
fashion to you through the agency of an instrument or medium, I look
forward so much to the time when it may be possible, in fact we are
sure it will be possible, by the process of a scientific mechanism,
machinery, be able to tune in, in such a way, to a higher rate of
vibration, far beyond the human ear, as you understand it, on a rate
so unique in itself, it will have to be brought down, be transformed,
be transferred, as it were, to an audible sound and speech
eventually.
After all, this is exactly what, in a sense, one
does when one communicates in this particular fashion. It's a
transmission of one’s thought into sound and being reproduced,
vibrating the atmosphere, creating sound - perhaps in a sense, one
might almost say, recreating it.
But the point is, that we
have a method which we are now working on, which we feel we shall be
able to reproduce, through instruments, scientific instruments,
sounds; the voices of people long since, as the world calls it,
'dead'.
The mastery of this method is not yet complete. But
there are those who, for various very good reasons perhaps, are not
with...are not prepared to, at this stage, come forward with any
particular information. But I think we may say with absolute
assurance, that it is not very far off before Russia, certain
scientists in Russia, who are experimenting on certain lines, will
stumble - rather than perhaps from the point of view of deliberately
seeking, but in seeking something else, they will stumble - across
this method, which we are trying to help them with.
Their idea
of course, is to produce certain instruments to have communication on
certain wave lengths, on vibrations rates, with certain, if possible,
seers. Already, to some extent, this has been successful. They have
been receiving pulsations and they have been receiving certain sounds
which are outside - indeed, a long way outside - the range of Earthly
sound.
But we know that accidentally, rather than
intentionally, because they do not know of our help in this; but they
will stumble, they will be receiving messages which we are sending
out, which will be transmitted over a long period, which will be
brought into sound on Earth. But this is something I don’t feel, at
the moment one can go into too deeply. America too is on similar
lines, but I don't think, in fact I know, they are not so far
advanced in this.
This anxiety, this desire to discover more
of outer space, to discover what the various planets are like, what
they consist of, what the conditions would be, should a man land and
so on...well, they are not, of course, interested - indeed, they are
not even aware, of the possibility of man, who once lived on Earth,
living in...on spheres in the atmosphere, communicating.
They
are more concerned with worlds which they have been aware of for
sometime which are gradually coming closer and closer by the help of
science, they are being brought into a great reality. But they are
going to discover, much to their surprise, worlds of human beings who
once inhabited Earth and who are still continue to live in a higher
field of activity, because it will be mind reaching out. In other
words, it will be thought forces, reaching out to man that will
be...which will...which will be picked up.
This is something
they are not anticipating or expecting. But we are making full use,
taking full advantage, of what they are doing on your side,
scientifically; that we can use it, to some extent, to prove our
identity, to prove our reality, to prove that we truly do exist, that
there is a world after death, physical death, in which millions of
souls of all nationalities are still existing and developing and
evolving and have a greater intelligence, and a greater response to
life.
This is the living reality of which I speak, which we
are hoping to eventually, as I have already said, scientifically
prove to those in your world who are, at the moment, not aware of
what is going on, but who will be surprised at certain things that
will happen. They will at first, no doubt, think that they are in
communication with intelligences from other planets. But it will be
made clear to them that the intelligence is of the individuals and
souls who are trying desperately from this side to communicate. It
will be a tremendous revelation and we hope that it will eventually
bring a greater understanding among the people of Earth.
We
can see much of the futility of the conditions which have been
created through their ignorance and indeed, through their
intolerance. And we are very distressed, of course, when we look into
your world and see the terrible, terrible conditions which have
arisen through man's intolerance and foolishness and we are anxiously
hoping to prevent catastrophe.
And we feel that if we can
break through and do this in that scientific way of which I speak, it
will deter man from going to the brink, the very abyss. We are very
much concerned when we see your present world
and the terrible, terrible state which man has allowed himself to get
into.
Science, properly used, properly applied, is a
blessing to man. Much that is given to man through science could mean
for man, a better way of life and a much happier one. But there are
the limited few who see it, often, as a weapon which can be used in
defence - so they say - or war.
And this is, of course, the
appalling fact; that instead of being used for man's good, it is
often used for man's destruction. We have seen it in the past and
want to avoid it in the future. We who come from this side,
particularly those of us who come with an idea of being of service
and of being of real value and help to your world, are distressed and
appalled, of course, when we see the state and condition of your
world.
We are concerned with proving, if we can and I’m sure
we can eventually, in this scientific way of which I try to give you
some idea. But it will be, it must be. The time is not far distant
when there will be such a scientific aspect of communication. There
will be no doubts and it will be universally accepted and then
perhaps, we shall see the true beginning of the 'brotherhood of man'.
We shall see many of the old barriers knocked down and we
shall see that man has realised, perhaps for the very first time, how
vital and necessary it is for him to band together and break down the
barriers that separate - the barriers of creed, the barriers of
religion and politics - these barriers that man has built up over the
centuries of time.
We are hoping and praying that it may not
be too long before the first fruits of our labour will become
apparent. But you will be hearing - and I make this as a definite
prophecy - you will be hearing very soon, I feel sure, certain things
which will give you some idea and knowledge of that of which I try to
convey. Certainly there will be the beginnings of this breakthrough.
It’s not so far off, particularly in Russia where science has
really progressed...
You know, it is to us the most amazing
thing. Russia - which was only, less than fifty years ago or fifty
years ago, was one of the most, if not the most backward
nation in the world, in which there was no opportunity for the people
whatsoever, to progress - have come now to become really,
scientifically, the leading nation in the world. They have become a
taut-knit nation.
I know there are many aspects which one
might condemn and I'm not here to condemn, but scientifically I
suppose, I must speak purely of that aspect...the amazing technical,
scientific advancement that has been made by these people who, fifty
years ago, could neither read nor write and had no schooling and no
opportunity. It, to me, is the most extraordinary thing. If they can
make this advance, as they have done in roughly fifty years, what
they will achieve and may achieve in the next twenty-five alone is
fantastic.
And one has to say, that it is from Russia, from
the scientific point of view, that one may expect to see these
advances. Although I don't think America is so very far behind. But I
feel, from the point of view of scientific communication between our
world and yours, it is in Russia that we shall see the first
signs.
There seems to be more advancement there and we
certainly are working with certain scientists, in the hope of
producing something very definite in the very near future. So, if it
is published, as I should imagine eventually it will be brought into
light, I don't think it's something that we would want to hold back,
because it would be of no value in a material sense. It's purely
something of the mind.
The Russians, for a long time, have
been piercing the veil. They have been experimenting scientifically,
with thought force and power of thought and what it can do, what it
can achieve. They've been very active on a mental plane, on a mental
level. Very, very advanced indeed. You will see this, I tell you
this, very shortly, you will see the beginning of this.
Anyway,
I'm very interested in what you, dear friends, are doing. I know
there are difficulties. There are bound to be limitations of a
certain kind, but I know that you do your utmost. And I think you are
very fortunate, in as much, that you have got this mediumship. But
you know, as much as one may admire it, good mediumship - which is
rare - we are looking forward to a scientific breakthrough. This is
something I'm most, most anxious about and I'm most concerned
with.
Well, I don't think I can stay.
Woods:
Oh,
Sir Oliver?
Lodge:
Yes?
Woods:
Sir
Oliver, could you...I wanted to ask you something now you've come
through. About these flying saucers; are they true or not true? Are
they...do they come from other planets?
Lodge:
But
of course there are other planets, who are endeavouring to make
contact or are curious or interested in your world. Just the same as
your world or scientists, certain scientists, and peoples are
interested in other planets. Of course they do exist, and of course
there is a lot of nonsense, no doubt, talked and a lot of things
which don’t apply.
But of course there are entities, souls,
who are trying to break through in a scientific way from other
planets into your world and who are in a position, and I would say in
some senses, more advanced and are trying to make contact in their
own way. But, I think I can say with absolute truth, that of course
they are very apprehensive.
You see, you must not think that
souls on other planets, who are endeavouring to communicate, or at
least are interested in your world, are not unaware of the mentality
of the mass.
Woods/Greene:
Quite. Yes.
Lodge:
You
see, you have got to accept that fact that there is every reason for
them to be suspicious of the motives of the peoples of Earth, who,
for generations, have lived by war. And who have, whatever advance
scientifically...at least many of the scientific advances materially,
that have been made, have been used for destruction rather than for
good. You see, there is apprehension on certain planets, where there
is a realisation of things of Earth, because of the attitude of mind.
You see, you cannot avoid the mass mind which generates in
your world, which pierces the etheric conditions around your world.
If you could see the etheric vibrations and conditions around your
world, you would understand and realise why there must be
apprehension on various spheres and planets. Even with ourselves who
come to communicate.
We are very conscious of this very
strong, powerful etheric force around your world, which is pushed out
constantly by millions and millions of minds and thoughts, which in
themselves are not good. They are very heavy. They are concerned with
materialism to such a degree and there is so much fear. There is a
tremendous force of which you know nothing, which is around your
world, which makes it very difficult for communication, apart from
anything else.
It is an amazing thing that you do receive the
communications that you do. Because if you could see as I see it,
many of us are aware, the conditions around your Earth are appalling.
[Sound of Flint's dog.]
Lodge:
This
is brought about by man himself, by the very thoughts that he
generates all the time. There is a terrible...which to us, I suppose
you could say, to us is like a kind of fog. It’s a terrible
atmosphere around your world. The whole of your world is living in
fear. All the time you are living, as it were, on the very edge of a
precipice.
You never know quite what the next day is going to
bring forth. You have had certain indications recently, of what can
happen accidentally. But my goodness me...I don’t think the people
of Earth realise that all the time, every second of their living
moment, you might say, is fraught with danger. You have so much power
of destruction in your world at the present moment; all ready to be
set off at a moment's notice and I don't think humanity realises what
it has done to itself.
It's built up a tremendous stockpile of
force and power of destruction. The whole world is full of fear and
intolerance. The brotherhood of man has been pushed into the
background. The churches do nothing. They side with governments, they
side with force, if necessary. They pretend to be pacifistic and yet
at the same time they are far from pacifistic. At the same time they
are supposed to follow Christ, the man of God, the Prince of Peace,
the man who had nowhere to lay his head...and yet all the time they
deny him in their very thoughts and their actions by supporting these
things.
Why doesn't the Church come out, as it should do, in
a vast body of power and strength and denounce this horror which man
has built? This terrible condition under which you live, this
intolerable situation which man has brought upon himself through
fear.
Greene:
Sir Oliver, may I ask you
something?
Lodge:
Yes, please do, but I don't think
I can stay.
Greene:
Oh, uh, with the saucers again;
people who have seen them, they say they can feel terrific spiritual
feeling when they...when they are near them. As if they...spiritual
vibrations...
Lodge:
Well of course, I think that's
perfectly true, that they would and they must. Because the motives
and the desires of the souls who are trying to link up with your
world, from whatever planet or sphere they may come, is for good.
We are concerned...every individual, every soul is concerned
with the welfare of man, for the good of man. But you see, we see all
the dangers. We see how you are, all the time, preparing, in every
sense...it's not only physical, it's mental too.
You see the
whole atmosphere in your world, to us, is appalling. Man has created
so much havoc in the past and now he has weapons which, quite
frankly, that there could be nothing left. It would only need a few
to be set off. And you've had an indication recently with this
Spanish business...
Greene:
Yes.
Lodge:
Well,
quite honestly, it should prove to people the terrible danger - even
by sheer accident - under which you exist today. To me it is
frightening, to me it is appalling, to me it is something which I
find almost unbelievable; that people with intelligence and reasoning
power, particularly those who profess to have spiritual beliefs and
spiritual desires, can allow themselves to sit back and do nothing.
To me it is an extraordinary state of affairs, but I'm afraid I can’t
stay...
May God bless you, I must go. Goodbye.
Greene:
Thank
you so much for coming.
Woods:
Thank you so much
for coming through...
Greene:
It's been lovely
today...
Woods:
Thank you very much. We're very
grateful.
Mickey:
Bye-bye.
Greene:
Cheerio
Mickey. See you next Monday.
Mickey:
Yes,
bye-bye.
Greene:
Bye-bye love.
Woods:
Thank
you Mickey for all you've done.
This transcript was created for the Trust by K.Jackson-Barnes