The Leslie Flint Educational Trust

WEB: www.leslieflint.com                  EMAIL: leslieflinttrust@outlook.com

 

Impression of how Jenny Wilson may have appeared.
'Harvesting Potatoes' painted by Jules Bastien-Lepage



The  Jenny Wilson séance

Recorded: April 26th 1971

Jenny Wilson was a farm worker in the south of England
during the reign of Queen Victoria.


Talking to George Woods and Betty Greene,
Jenny explains how she died during childbirth, 
but awoke in the Spirit World with her baby daughter.

Jenny finds it difficult to communicate and her voice fluctuates throughout the recording, but Mickey helps the best he can.


Note: This enhanced recording is almost 50 years old and is not to modern standards.

 
 
 

Please read the full transcript below as you listen...



Present:
George Woods, Betty Greene, Leslie Flint
Communicators: Mickey, Jenny Wilson



Woods:

...oh yes...I'm sorry I wasn't here last time.

Mickey:
How did you know? Yeah, she was naughty. You missed.


Woods:
I know. Sorry about that Mickey.

Mickey:
I suppose you couldn’t make it?

Greene:
He wasn’t very well Mickey.

Mickey:
Oh, I’m sorry. Well, that’s the trouble ain’t it? You’re not getting younger.

Flint:
[Laughs]

Woods:
Well I don’t feel old yet, uh...Mickey.

Mickey:
No. You may not feel it, but you’re getting on, ain’t you? You can’t do the things you used to do. Can’t run round like a two-year-old.

Woods:
...but anyway, I’m here today Mickey. Very pleased to be here.

Mickey:
Here today, gone tomorrow! That’s what they say don’t they?

Woods:
That’s right yes. Well, how are you Mickey?

Mickey:
Oh, I’m very well thank you.

Woods:
Are you very busy on that side?

Mickey:
Oh dear, you always ask me that. Yes, I’m always busy....I’m always busy, one way and another. Helping people; trying to help people anyway. Sometimes you succeed, sometimes you don’t. You can only do your best can’t you?

Woods:
...you’ve done a lot...in helping people haven’t you Mickey?

Mickey:
Well I do my best.

[Short silence]

Voice:
Ah, good morning to you.

Woods:
Good morning.

Voice:
Mr Woods...

Woods:
Yes.


Voice:
Mrs Greene...

Woods:
That’s right. How are you friend? We can hear you quite well.

[Short silence]

[Sound of passing traffic]

Different Voice:
I am...

Woods:
Yes?


Voice:
...very pleased to be here.

Greene:
Good!

Woods:
Very nice of you to come.

Greene:
Come along friend.

Jenny:
Jenny.

Greene:
Jenny?


Woods:
Jenny, yes...

Jenny:

I am Jenny.

Greene:
You’re Jenny.

Woods:
Good.
Come on Jenny.

Jenny:
I am Jenny.

Woods:
Yes?
Come on Jenny.

[Short silence]

[Sound of passing traffic]

Jenny:

I am Jenny.

Woods:
Yes?

Jenny:
[Louder]
I am Jenny.

Woods:
Yes.
[Laughing]

Greene:
[Laughing]
We know that Jenny!

Flint:
[Laughing]

Woods:
Come on Jenny.

Jenny:
How are you?

Greene:
Very well thank you.

Jenny:
Good.

Woods:
Very well.

Jenny:
I am very well too.

Greene:
Jolly good.

Jenny:
You are spirits too.

Greene:
Yes, we’re spirits as well.

Woods:
That’s quite right.


Greene:
Quite right.

Jenny:
But you are still on the Earth.

Flint:
[Laughing]


Woods:
Yes, that’s right...

Jenny:
I am a Spirit too, not on the Earth.

Greene:
Yes Jenny.

Woods:
That’s right.

Jenny:
That’s the only difference between you and me.


Greene:
Quite true Jenny, yes.

Jenny:
I have been here a long time now. I did not believe all this when I was on your side.

Woods:
No?

Jenny:

No. Now I know better. You are Spiritualists, as they call them, and understand.

Woods:
Yes.

Jenny:
You believe in communication; that’s why I’m here.

Woods:
That’s good!

Flint:
Oh dear!

Greene:
Well can you give us a talk Jenny; tell us all about yourself?

Jenny:
I’ll try.

Greene:
Good. Thank you.

Jenny:
I had my share of trouble, but now I haven’t got a care in the world.

Woods:
Oh that’s nice Jenny.

Greene:
Where did you live in...on the Earth Jenny?

[Slight interference on the recording]

Woods:
[Unintelligible]

Greene:
Sounds like she’s reading it doesn’t it, yes?

Jenny:

I was...

Greene:

Yes?

Jenny:
...brought up in the country.

Woods:
Yes?

Jenny:

A place called Smallford.

Greene:
Smallford?

Jenny:
That is right. Smallford we called it.

Greene:
Yes?

Jenny:
I was one of a family of eleven children...

Woods:
Oh yes, quite a big family.

Jenny:
...and when we were quite small children we would have to be up early in the morning, and go to work in the fields; sometimes potato picking, according to the season; sometimes stone picking; all sorts of things to earn extra few coppers.*

Woods:
Yes...


Jenny:
I married when I was eighteen. My husband worked on a farm...

Woods:
Yes.

Jenny:
Labourer...

Woods:
Oh yes?

Jenny:

...ploughing, hoeing, and all the rest of it, according to the seasons.

Woods:
Yes.

Greene:
Yes.

Jenny:

Yes.
I died in childbirth with my first child. I was out in the fields.

Woods:
Yes.

Jenny:
In those days we had to work up to the very last moment and then you were lucky if you had a doctor; usually a woman in the village, or someone, would help.

Greene:
Go on Jenny, this is interesting.

Jenny:
Both the baby and me died in a hedge.

Woods:
In a hedge? Yes...

Jenny:
I have been here many years now.

Woods:
Yes.

Jenny:

People don’t know what we people had to suffer in those days.

Woods:
No...

Greene:

Jenny, you went over together; you and your baby, in the spirit world. Now, did you bring your baby up in the spirit world?

Jenny:
Yes, and I have here now, beside me, my daughter, and if you could see us we look like each other. I don’t look any older and she has grown up to a fine young woman now. My husband married again...

Woods:
Yes?

Jenny:
...and he is here and we are often together on this side of life. But we do not live together, but we are together. You understand?

Woods:
Yes.

Jenny:

I find it very funny, coming to talk to you in this way. I hope you can hear what I say.

Woods:
Jenny, did you, uh...

Flint:
[Sniffing]

Woods:
...how many years was it ago, since you died? Was it, uh...?

Jenny:
Must be...must be getting on now for one hundred years, I suppose.

Woods:
Do you know what King was in reign when you...?

Jenny:
It was the Queen.

Woods:
Queen Victoria?

Jenny:
She was on the throne.

Woods:
Oh yes, yes.

Jenny:
I once saw the Queen.

Woods:
You did?

Jenny:
Yes.

Greene:
Jenny, how do you bring a baby up in the spirit world like that? It would be so different from the Earth. How do you do it?

Jenny:
Well, as far as I can tell you, the same as you would have done, more or less, on Earth - excepting, as far as I can understand and my own experience, you don’t have some sort of material, as you call it, ways. It’s...I suppose to do...really you have to realise that it’s the spirit that you are bringing up and educating and helping...it’s not the body in the same way.

It looks much the same…and it takes time, I suppose, like it would have done on Earth …but it is, um...one is conscious, I suppose, in a way, of time. I suppose in my case, it’s because I was young and the child was new. I was given the joy of bringing the child up as if it were almost the same as on Earth...

Woods:
Yes?

Jenny:
...and gradually watched her grow up and play with other children of the same sort of age, and gradually go to school and learn various things that were considered nec-nec-necessary, you see?

Greene:
Yes...

Jenny:

And of course I taught her little things, and, uh...but I realised that I had no education...I couldn’t read or write. I’d never been to school in my life and I wasn’t able to do much in that way. All I could help her with was to realise and to think of the right sort of things, and to pass her time in learning and gaining all the knowledge that she could from others...

Woods:
Yes.

Jenny:
...but she and I were together in a nice little place, a cottage, which I’d always hoped that my husband and I would have, eventually, but it wasn’t to be, you see?


Woods:
Did you have a cottage on Earth?


Jenny:
No. Oh no. I had to live with his parents.

Woods:
Oh you did, yes?

Jenny:
Oh, shocking!

Greene:
Jenny, what was your married name, may we know it?

Jenny:

My name was Wilson.

Greene:
Jenny Wilson.

Jenny:
That’s right. Jane...Jenny...

Greene:
Jenny yes.

Jenny:

...and his name was Bill.

Woods:
What are you doing that side now Jenny?

Jenny:
I go now to all sorts of interesting places, and I have learned a great deal on this side, and I have educated myself...or been educated, I suppose you’d say...but the funny thing is, coming here seems strange...

Greene:
It’s your first time probably Jenny.

Jenny:
...and I can’t seem to get hold of my old...my real self...I find myself, sort of, like I was...


Flint:
[Sneezes]

Jenny:
You got a cold?

Flint:
[Laughs]
Just a bit...

Jenny:
That’s one thing we don’t have over here: no colds, nothing like that; no sickness, no illness, no nothing like that. Oh it’s wonderful.


Greene:
Jenny, what does your daughter do?

Jenny:
My daughter dances and she loves music and she’s a beautiful dancer...oh she is really beautiful...you should see her. She’s like a...what-you-call-it...a fairy. And of course over here, you see, they have great processions and great get-togethers or...oh I don’t know what you call them...pageants or something like that...and they have great, sort of, places where you go...and all sorts of beautiful things happen...music and colour and dancing and...oh it’s very beautiful...and she plays in some of these here ceremonies, as you call them, you see...and she is really good you know.

I often wondered you know...of course, I mean, I knew I'd never have a chance to do anything when I was on your side...because of...well...I’d never been to what they call a theatre on your side. The nearest thing I ever went to was something, not far from where we lived in the town, where they had a company come...uh...some playings...they used to come in the town hall, you know.


That’s all I’d ever seen, and that was...oh, I don’t know quite now how that was, that I went there...but I did, and it was nice.

Woods:
What was your nearest town Jenny?
Jenny, what was your nearest town, that you used to go to?

Flint:
[Sniffing]

Woods:
The nearest one?


Flint:
[Sniffing]

Jenny:
The nearest was Bishop’s Stortford.

Greene:
Oh it’s around that way? I thought it was, yes.

Woods:
Oh Bishop’s Stortford? Yes, yes. Bishop’s Stortford.

Greene:
Jenny, when you first passed over, I mean...were you bewildered and surprised that you were, sort of, in the...quite a different environment with your baby?


Jenny:

[Struggling to communicate]
Yes I was. I was rather...but...oh dear...I think there’s something gone wrong. I think there’s something gone wrong.

Greene:
Oh it’s alright, you’ll be able to hold on.

Mickey:
Hold on...

Greene:
Yes, alright Mickey. It’s very interesting.


Jenny:
We used to...

Greene:
Mmm?

Jenny:
We used to have a wagon...

Greene:
You used to have a wagon?

Jenny:
For the haymaking.

Woods/Greene:
Yes? Haymaking?

Jenny:
We used to have the wagon...and go to...

[Voice regains strength]


We used to have the wagon and we used to go to the nearest town sometimes.

Woods:
Yes?

Jenny:
They let us have the wagon and, the villagers, we used to go sometimes to the market town and that’s where once I went to this...well, it wasn’t a theatre…it was this town hall and they was doing some plays. Don’t remember what it was now...long time ago. Of course over here I’ve seen wonderful plays and wonderful things, I have. Oh! It is marvellous.

Of course I’m so different now! Here’s me talking to you in this way and I can hear myself, in a strange kind of way, and I’m saying to myself, ‘now that’s not you Jenny, not as you are now, that’s as you was’. You know, it’s most funny. It’s as if somehow, as I come and I talk to you, as if I’m the old self...and I wouldn’t want to stay like that. Oh, not for anything. I want to be what I am now, and talk and say things and...like I can do! Not like I was.

Greene:
It's very kind of you to come...


Jenny:
It’s funny, this box thing, isn’t it? Oh I don’t know what they do with it. It’s a very funny business isn’t it? I’ve heard about you actually, from several friends who have been to these...what-you-call-them? Se...se...séances?

Woods:
Yes.

Jenny:
Oh yes. Oh I remember those days in the country. Never knew anything much from the time I was, oh, quite a small child and we’d be in the country, in the fields and...ah well...


Woods:
Have you travelled round...?

Jenny:
They were terrible days. People don’t know how terrible they was, for people like us.

Greene:
There was poverty wasn't there?

Jenny:
Oh it was terrible. Now, I come and I see what goes on in your world...I don’t know, I suppose, of course, things are much better for the ordinary people, much better. Better, better, better altogether...and yet it’s a frightening world. Oh! With all them motorcars and things and...of course we had none of them…oh, they’re horrible, horrible! [I] shouldn’t want to be with you now. 


I’m happy; lovely house, lovely place, lovely people. Oh goodness me, I wouldn’t come back for anything. I don’t mind coming just for a minute, to have a word. Oh, but I wouldn’t want to come back and talk regular, like. I shouldn’t want that, oh no!


Greene:
Jenny, who helped you when you first went over? Who helped you to get 'acclimatised', as it were?


Jenny:
Well there was a very beautiful lady. I remember being under the hedge, and I knew that I was going to die; I don’t know, but I knew I was. And some woman...well, two women actually, friends of mine...and one had gone running off to try and get help, the other one was there. There we was, in the hedge, you know...

Greene:
Yes.

Jenny:
...and, um, I knew I was going to die. I knew...I knew...I don’t know how I knew, but I knew I was...and it was just as if, I don’t know...as if...as if I was drifting and drifting away...and I could hear this friend trying to help and comfort...but of course, there was nothing they could do under the circumstances and I knew I was going to pass, as you call it...and anyway I remember, sort of, losing myself and then finding myself...that’s funny isn’t it?


And there I was standing...standing in the fields and I had got this baby in my arms! But I just didn’t understand it at all, that I should be standing in the middle of this field and, you know, with a baby...and all around me I could see miles of scenes of country...and yet it was not the same country that I’d been used to, but different.


Greene:
Yes.

Woods:

More beautiful?


Jenny:
Yes, in a way...but different.


Woods:
Yes. Were there trees and...?


Jenny:
Well there was and there wasn’t.

Woods:
Oh...

Greene:
Go on Jenny...

Flint:
[Coughing]


Jenny:
There were trees, but I knew they weren’t real trees and the countryside wasn’t real countryside...and I just, sort of, deep down inside me, felt lost...as if I was in a dream...and I had a feeling that I was in a kind of dream and that all these things would disappear and the trees were different, I’d never seen trees like this at all. They were big trees and they’d got great big leaves hanging, long branches...and I learned afterwards that they were...trees like you see in foreign parts.


Woods:
Did they have any flowers...any flowers on them at all?


Jenny:
No, they were just like these palms...

Woods:
Oh, I see, yes.

Jenny:
...that occasionally I’d seen in church, you know, at Easter...and I realised that I was in a strange sort of country, but nothing I’d seen before and yet, it wasn’t real. And...all of a sudden I saw a procession (well that’s what I thought it was) of people, all dressed in beautiful garments, coming up a wide, sort of, road and I was coming out of this field and it seems as if I was on this road.


And then, as I was walking towards this crowd of people, in all these beautiful colours and clothes...as if something was happening to me...and gradually everything changed and the whole scene was different...and I was standing beside...well, what looked like the sea and yet it wasn’t the sea. I’d never seen the sea, I’d never been to the sea. I’d heard about the sea, but I saw all this great water...and, um, I don't know...

I'd read...rather from what people had said, you know...but, um...heard that people had read, you know, things...things they’d written...books, sometimes, you know...and we used to have someone who sometimes used to read to us...and it sounded as if I was in some foreign part...and as if it, sort of, tallied with what I’d heard about Jesus and, um, Galilee...

...and, um, there was a lot of people all standing and listening...and up on the, sort of, rocks, there was this man...beautiful man, with beautiful black hair, ever so shiny and beautiful eyes...and he was, sort of, talking to these people and there was a lot of children and, um...I don’t know, I just thought, ‘well, this is what I’ve heard in the church when the man read to us about Jesus and...and...and Galilee...and, um, oh, it all seemed to, sort of, have something to do with him...and I was there with this child of mine...and very sort of...I don’t know, all worried and unsure.

You know, I didn’t know where I was, and what I was, and who I was, hardly. It was most peculiar and it was almost [as if], all the time I was thinking of what was happening...and yet at the same time, I was thinking about myself and the hedge and my friend and the baby and...

Oh, I think I must have been in a peculiar sort of state. That’s what I’ve learned since. That evidently, I was in this state of mind, from what I was told afterwards, that what I went through then was a, sort of...I don’t know whether you’d call it a dream...but it was a peculiar state where I was in neither one place or the other.

[Jenny's voice deteriorates]

Anyway I was, sort of, caught up, in a way, with all these here people that were sitting around and listening to the...and I could hear this voice...but it was funny, because I could hear the voice and yet the man didn’t appear to be speaking anything. And I could, sort of, feel that I was being drawn towards him...and as I walked forward people, sort of, moved aside...

And there was great, sort of, music going on, I don’t know what it was. Of course, there was no people there playing any fiddles or anything and it was as if I was, sort of...I don’t know, hearing things that weren’t being said...and hearing things that weren’t being played...and instruments I didn’t see...but it was like beautiful church music, but much better than anything we’d ever had in our church.


And I could hear this music getting louder and louder and louder and I could hear this voice, which was calling me to go forward towards the man who was sitting on this rock...and this man looked like...well, not like Jesus, because the pictures I’d seen of Jesus, he’d always been a fair bloke, a fair man, you know. And this man was dark, oh, very dark, with very dark complexion, olive complexion and very black eyes. Very wonderful eyes they were and his hair was hanging to his shoulders...oh, and I just felt drawn there...and somehow as I got nearer and nearer and nearer, I just...I don’t know, it was as if everything disappeared...everything just disappeared.


[Voice deteriorates further]

And then I woke up in a very nice room, with the baby beside me...in a very nice room...and there was some various people standing there smiling at me...

Woods:
Can you keep on?

Greene:

Please hang on Jenny. It’s interesting isn’t it?

Woods:
Yes, very interesting.

Jenny:
[Stronger voice]
Yes...there I was, in bed with the baby in my arms, in this pretty room...and there were several people standing round...people I didn’t know, but all seemed so happy and so kind...and I was told that I had arrived and that all was well and there was nothing to worry about any more...that this would be my home...I would be looked after and the child...and that this would be made up to me for all the unhappiness I had known…and that this would be my future place in which I’d gradually find a ‘new self’ - that’s the way they put it - a new self.

I didn’t understand and they said, ‘Don’t worry. Just be patient and leave everything to us, just close your eyes and lose yourself. Just be quiet and at peace and when you come round, later we’ll tell you more about everything, but this is not the right moment. Just know that you’ve come home and you’re safe and so is the baby and later we’ll tell you more about it.’

Oh, it was wonderful. It was as if, in some way, this beautiful, beautiful ‘experience’, as you say, I had with this beautiful man...and I was told afterwards that this was the Christ, manifesting himself as he does. That’s the way they put it and I’ve learned since many of these things...and words and things. ‘Manifesting’, they called it, ‘his spirit’ to those who were coming from the darkness into the light and were being received into the realms of spiritual love...and that this was my ‘reception’, they called it, and that all was well and I wasn’t to be unhappy any more...and that my child and I had been given new life in the ‘realms of happiness’, as they called it.


I suppose they said these things, obviously, that I would understand them. But I’ve learned a lot more since, much more...oh much more! But you did ask me about how I came, but I can’t say any more now. It’s been rather difficult. I had to get someone to help me, because I felt as if I was drifting away from you...but I’m...you know, done my best for you...

Greene:

You've done very well Jenny.

Jenny:
...and I’ll try and come again and tell you what, you know, how things have been since my coming. But I can say that this business of dying...well, there’s nothing much to it really. I suppose it’s natural, we all fear it down on your side...but it’s natural and it’s...well, not that different really in a way to being born, which in a kind of way...you know, that’s, in a way, what it is.


It’s like being born again, like we was told in the old days in the churches. But of course, it’s natural...nothing unnatural or strange. No one need worry. I’m beautifully happy and I’m very much...well, I’m very much more advanced I suppose now, obviously. But you did ask me to talk about...you know...so that’s why I tried to get onto my thoughts on the old things, the early things, you see?

Anyway, I’ll come if I can another time.

Greene:
We'd like you to come again...

Jenny:
Yes. I must go.

Greene:
Thank you very much.

Jenny:
Bye-bye.
Good-bye.

Woods:
Thank you very much.


Mickey:
Bye-bye.

Greene:
Good-bye Mickey. Thank you Mickey.

Woods:
Oh thank you Mickey. Thank you Mickey.

Mickey:
We had to help her a great deal towards the end.
Bye-bye.

Greene:
Bye-bye Mickey. Thank you.

Flint:
Hmm!


END OF RECORDING


* Coppers = copper coins, especially pennies.



This transcript was created for the Trust by Jack Terrence Andrews and K.Jackson-Barnes - November 2018