The Leslie F​lint​ Tr​ust

Present: Leslie Flint, George Woods, Betty Greene.

Communicators: George Frederick Olsen, Mickey.

Olsen:

Hello George.

Woods:

Hello.

Olsen:

Hello Betty.

Greene:

Hello. Who's that ?

Olsen:

Good Lord. Olsen here.

Woods:

Oh, Olsen...

Greene:

Hello Mr. Olsen

Woods:

Well, Mr. Olsen...

Greene:

Well...

Olsen:

Well, how are you both ?

Woods:

Oh, very well.

Greene:

Fine thank you.

Woods:

And how are you getting on ?

Olsen:

Very well. No regrets. I'm very happy. I wouldn't come back if you offered me all the gold in China !

Greene:

(Laughing)

Woods:

Oh, well... (Laughs)

Olsen:

I'm perfectly well and perfectly happy and I can't tell you how marvellous it is to be dead !

Flint:

(Laughs)

Woods:

Oh, well I never !

Olsen:

I've never known... Well, you know I was very interested in all this and I used to go to the meetings and the séances...

Greene:

Yes.

Woods:

I know you were.

Greene:

I've sat with you in this room before.

Olsen:

I know, that's a few years ago. My goodness me - people should consider themselves lucky the day they kick the bucket !

Flint/Woods/Greene:

(Laughing)

Woods:

What are you doing Mr. Olsen on that side ?

Olsen:

Oh, I'm not doing anything in particular. Just... I suppose everything's a matter of adjustment and time but I'm perfectly well, perfectly 

happy in my own way of life over here. Met all my people and lots of my old friends and companions, you know.

Woods:

Met Mr. Pell ?

Olsen:

Yes, but I don't particularly feel inclined to do anything. I suppose eventually I shall. I find everything here so stimulating, so interesting. And I feel fit and well and to be able to get about and take an interest in things and people... And there are so many interests, George. Ah, wait till you come here! I don't know what you're waiting for. I don't know what you're staying there for.

Woods:

Well, I want to do a lot of work.

Olsen:

Ahh ! You'll do a few years probably.

Woods:

Huh !

Greene:

Mr. Olsen, what were your feelings when you first found yourself over there ?

Olsen:

Well fortunately I knew quite a bit about it before I came. That was a great blessing and a great help; believe me it was.

Oh, I was a bit um... I suppose like everyone must be at first, a bit shaken in a way. I suppose we have our own idea of things and what we've been told one way and another but... I think the reality of it all, the naturalness of it all, was the thing that surprised me. I suppose it shouldn't have done, but it did.

Greene:

Well, what sort of condition did you find yourself in ? What sort of place or... um... you know...?

Olsen:

Well, I sort of... as far as I'm concerned the place in which I found myself was... I suppose the nearest one can say is like some country place: could be anywhere, in a sense. I mean there were... the trees and the birds and just as if one was waking up in a country village, although in a sense it wasn't a village. I realised that very soon afterwards, thousands and thousands of people; many, many... I suppose what you'd call apartment houses... the only way I can... I suppose that's what you'd call them; vast buildings housing thousands of people. All sounds like a rather like a large council estate, but nothing like that really.

Greene:

No. Go on.

Olsen:

But very beautiful. Extremely beautiful setting: a sort of woodland setting and beautiful scenery everywhere. Even lakes. I mean I... it was just as if you... well, were waking up, as it were, in a kind of country setting in the late summer.

Greene:

Lovely.

Olsen:

Everything was very quiet and peaceful and yet one soon realized there was a great deal of activity going on but there was no noise of any description. And the animals: there seemed to be many, many animals. And indeed I realized there were many animals here, particularly in regard to domestic animals: cats and pets that people have had on Earth, you know, that they still have over here. But they live in communities. There are separate houses. There are people who do have separate houses but that seems to come - as far as I can make out - to most people after a time. It doesn't necessary happen all at once. There are probably exceptions.

I think this place... In fact I realized this place which I first came to was a kind of reception station - that's the only way I can put it - because it's pretty obvious that quite a lot of people when they first come they do need help and care and attention. They need to be sort of helped through, I suppose for many people, a difficult situation or a difficult period.

They don't all take to it, I suppose. In the beginning the realisation for some when their dead and that they're separated from, particularly, certain people they're close to and fond of on Earth; when they realise that although they can return but very seldom do they have an opportunity to have a chat or to comfort the people they know and love on Earth, they soon begin to realise that they're not acknowledged, they're not welcomed and of course that's a great distress to people at first - I think one of the greatest distresses for people. That's why they do have these reception stations where there are very advanced souls in attendance who know how to deal with these difficult... more difficult cases and in consequence they're soon nurtured into a new way of thinking.

But for some people it's very difficult at first. That's why this knowledge, if you have this knowledge, it's a tremendous help to you because you realise very quickly the whole situation and you have the advantage of knowing that you can make a contact. And those people near and dear to you, if they're sufficiently interested as invariably they are (because through one's knowledge of it oneself when on Earth one's near ones are usually aware of it) and you can usually get back and get a communication: "I'm alright. Don't worry about me and everything in the garden's lovely," sort of thing. And it cheers them up, cheers us up and of course we settle down probably more quickly than the average person.

But I think the most difficult cases are these who have strong convictions, religious convictions: narrow outlook, you know, and... oh, they find it much more difficult and sometimes they're quite problems, you know.

Oh, we have community centres and the children of course are one of the greatest joys. I've seen so many children who live with their people over here. Of course, for many of them their parents are still on Earth but they're taken in charge by people, usually if possible related to them, like perhaps it might be a grandmother and so on. But if there is no close tie or relationship there's always souls here who'll take charge. And we have schools for them and they learn all sorts of things: certain things which they probably would have almost certainly learned at school on Earth but many other things which are much more important.

Here it's a vastly different life altogether and yet one takes to it like a duck takes to water, or at least I did. Of course, some don't. I suppose at first as I said some find it very difficult.

But, you know, there are vast cities here. I mean not just as I've just explained the place I first came to which I suppose you could say was... well, it was more than a village. Here there are vast cities, tremendous cities, vast cities and also you do get communities of peoples who, possibly because of their nationality when on Earth and possibly because of their colour even... they have this habit of clinging together or being together. This is usually of course a temporary thing. With most of them they... I suppose it's a national thing that they bring with them but this is soon lost and there's no bad feeling or anything like that. You do get these groups who cling together and live as a community who are possibly when... well, at least when on Earth were one nationals, you know, but that soon disappears.

Oh, we have vast, vast cities and all manner of interests; great halls of learning; great halls of music. One can study any particular thing that appeals to one; mostly of an artistic endeavour because it seems to me (I can realise that much more now) that art and things of the mind and of the spirit are the things that are the most lasting, obviously. I mean certain material gifts or abilities that one may have had may have been very necessary and very wonderful for the individual when on Earth, but over here they're not much value because those things are not necessary and they don't exist.

You see this is a real world but it's not a material world. So therefore we don't have all the material aspects like you do on Earth. You don't get vast factories, for instance. You don't get railways and stations and thank God you don't get all the noise, the filth and the dirt. Here it's a world of absolute beauty and there's a joy of progress in everything; the feeling of elation that comes with the realization that all the time you're stepping forward. It's so subtle I suppose really in a kind of way. You're not fully aware of it but there is this realisation that nothing can ever be... well, too much of an effort. Everything will come gradually.

There's progress of every sense, every kind. It's a must. I mean you can't avoid it. It's there. It's for you. It depends on you. You receive help and encouragement but it still falls back on the individual. And of course there's this realisation that... well, it's something which builds up. It's not something that just... you achieve something and that's it and that's the top and bottom of it. There's always something new, something fresh, something more interesting, some new experience, some new place to go to, new people to visit; fresh arrivals coming over from the Earth: people we've known and loved - helping them settle, getting them interested in all sorts of things over here.

The whole thing... it's very difficult. I realise of course now more than I ever did how difficult it is to impart knowledge - that is knowledge appertaining to this sort of life - which is so far removed in some senses from Earth. And yet at the same time it's very important to realise what a reality of life it is. It's not a wishy-washy affair. It's not some sort of vague something. It's a real existence and we are, in our own way, as physical as you are and yet it's not a physical body as you have it. It's... to all outward appearances it may look the same but it isn't; the construction is different.

I mean, we're living on a vibration which is so far removed from Earth and everything is rarified in consequence and everything that we do has a meaning and a purpose. At first of course one doesn't appreciate... or at least one appreciates but one doesn't understand it. And now one can not only understand and appreciate but one can see the purpose behind so many things.

I mean, when I look back on your side I think, "Well, my God! How did I ever get through it?" I mean your world to me seems... well, it's as if there's a dark, dreary, foggy atmosphere and of course the thought forces emanating from your world en mass, you know, are so terrible. And there's all this upset and hatred and bitterness and malice and goodness knows what else, coupled with all the other issues and complications of life. It amazes me now looking back of course... of course one doesn't obviously know anything better when you're on Earth but it seems almost such a remote thing - the old life, you know. I wouldn't want to come back to it.

Woods:

Could you tell us something...

Olsen:

(Interrupting) I don't know George why you didn't come when you had the opportunity.

Flint/Woods/Greene:

(Laughing).

Olsen:

You were as near as coming over as... I don't know what, you know.

Greene:

He was, wasn't he Mr. Olsen.

Olsen:

What you wanted to hang on for I'll never know.

Woods:

I've got more work to do here.

Olsen:

Unless it's for Betty.

Greene:

Pardon ? (Laughing)

Olsen:

Unless it was for you.

Woods:

Mr. Olsen would you tell us more about the colours of that side. Your colour and what you see...

Olsen:

Colours ? Huh ! Colours - we've got every colour that you can imagine and millions more I should think. There's so many varieties of colour. Colour of course plays a very important part in our lives. But, you know, thought is a predominating factor. We can think and by our thoughts we can create. I don't want you to think that everything is just done by thought from the point of view that you just think of something and there it is. That does happen of course. But there are creative people. I mean people who create and design; design interiors of houses for those who come along who enjoy using their hands to construct.

There are materials that one can use: all manner of materials, far different to anything you can conceive of. I mean all sorts of extraordinary things and one hardly knows how to begin to depict or describe them. There are people who design clothes. There are people who use a great deal of artistry in their various work. I mean, if you feel you want a particular dress and you like a particular colour, then the material can be created and indeed there are thousands of places where you can obtain materials.

Now, I don't suggest there are shops in the same sense as you understand it but there are places which are run by people, who are interested in materials and that sort of thing, who supply and will supply material which you can if you wish - or if you can't do it someone else will do it for you - create a dress or a suit even, if you want to. But there is this idea that persists among Spiritualists that you just think of a dress and then you're clothed in it.

Well, that, in a sense, is true, but it's only true from the point of view when one comes back to Earth and one wants to re-create an impression of probably oneself as one was and one would be remembered by perhaps certain wearing apparel, and so on. And one has the ability to re-create, in a mental thought force or form, oneself in a particular, shall we say, dress, but only temporarily.

It's only for a fleeting second or two of Earth time that we can hold on to that thought sufficiently for it to be impregnated and picked up by a sensitive or a medium. But, you see, it is important I think to differentiate between clairvoyance - that is what is received from a person, say, on Earth clairvoyantly from a person over here which is a thought force that has been sent out from the individual concerned and received and picked up by the medium on your side - there's a vast difference between that sort of communication, that sort of temporary sort of throwing out of thought form or idea, to actual self and actual living over here. In a sense, I think it's true to say that although we obviously do communicate - and there's no way of getting away from the fact that we do communicate - but really what you are receiving is a sort of mental picturisation, when it's clairvoyance anyway, which is directed to Earth, to individuals, from the individuals on this side who are anxious to communicate.

And of course, take this: I mean, it's a transmission of my thought transmitted via this artificial vocal voice box, call it what you will, which transmits it into sound. It's artificially created because, after all, although we can speak over here and we can communicate entirely if we wish by vocal effort, we learn very quickly that all the best form of communication is the mental process. But of course the mental process is happening all the time with people on Earth just the same as it's happening with us.

Communication between people on Earth can often be of a mental kind. In fact, there may be thousands of miles separating two people but their thoughts can be often sent out and picked up. But of course we do it automatically. As our method of communication is a mental process. Indeed this is a mental world. Everything that happens around and about us, everything that is connected with us, is through thought forces. This is a world of mental reality which by the very power it generates creates what you would call, I suppose, a physical outlet or a physical condition or picturisation of things.

The more one sort of develops mentally and spiritually here the more conscious and aware you become of other places and other vistas and other people. It's as if...In a sense I think it is true to say that all the worlds are one - but the only thing that separates at all is the lack of experience, the lack of development within the individual. I think it depends and falls back on the person every time. Everything is there - same as, in a sense, it is in your world. Science discovers certain things over a period of time but it was always there, waiting to be discovered.

There's nothing new. It's new in as much that it's something that has only just been brought to light in man's experience. But it was always there to be discovered. Same with our world. Everything that happens, everything that takes place, has been happening and taking place centuries - if one can use time with our world. There's nothing new, in a sense. Everything that's going to happen has already happened and everything that one desires eventually comes into place, comes into being. It doesn't happen so much probably in your world but, my goodness me, it does here. It's all waiting. It's all there, ready. It's just a matter of tapping the source and becoming, as it were, tuned into it. That seems to me the whole solution of everything.

The fact is that everything is there, it's just that we ourselves are not yet ready to receive or we haven't developed or evolved sufficiently to make it possible to sort of become part of it or become conscious of it. But it's there. There's nothing that isn't already there - there's no doubt about that.

Greene:

Mr. Olsen, you said you were not doing anything but how do you spend your time now ?

Olsen:

Oh my goodness me, time! You see that's a thing that doesn't exist for us. You see that's another thing that must become very puzzling to people. They say, 'Oh well, what do they do with their time ?'

Time, time, time! Well, we're not conscious of time. Time doesn't mean anything to us. We may be from your point of view doing all sorts of things that interest us, and may find so many different forms of interest, but we're not conscious of time. We're not conscious of an hour or a day or a week or a month or a year and, indeed, our only consciousness of time is through you. By coming back to you we're conscious of time to some extent. People say, 'Oh well, I'm sure so-and-so will come and speak because it's his birthday.'

Well, we couldn't care less, in a sense, about birthdays. Well in fact we probably wouldn't even remember it was our birthday if it were not for the fact we pick up the idea of the thought from the consciousness of the individual near and dear to us on Earth. The fact that somebody says, 'Oh well, it's Fred's birthday on February the so and-so.' Then we say, 'Oh, my birthday must be then.' But otherwise we wouldn't even know about it. The same as birth. I mean, it's quite obvious to me that consciousness of an individual was in existence before birth. I mean you only come into awareness of things as you gradually develop.

As you become a little older on Earth you gradually take in a conscious awareness of things going on around you - shapes and form and colour and sound. All these gradually begin to mean something when you're an infant. But there's no getting away from the fact that life existed before birth.

I don't think, for instance, I was just born, any more than I just died. I mean I was obviously there before birth, not necessarily in quite the same sense. I developed and evolved my own personality and people called me so-and-so Olsen and so on. But the point is that's infinitesimal in time itself; infinitesimal in the human relationship with the human endeavour and the human expression and experience. I mean it's pretty obvious to me that none of us are what we think we are, none of us. The whole thing is so complex I agree, but it's all so fascinating, you know.

Greene:

Yes. You've learned a lot haven't you since you've been over there ?

Olsen:

Well, I've learned lots of things. Quite frankly, I have accepted things now, I've learned many things now, which frankly if I'd have been told on your side I'd never have accepted and never have believed anyway. And I realise of course that there were many things that I didn't understand, many things that were puzzling.

I didn't necessarily accept everything as gospel. I think that's stupid when your on Earth you can't really. In spiritualism there are lots of things that puzzle. Of course, mind you, we don't really... that is from your point of view not mine... but on Earth one can't really know all these things, expect to understand all these things and there are many complexities. But the basic things, and that's what's important I suppose and that's all you can probably hope to learn while you're on Earth about these truths, is that basically life is continuous, that death isn't the end, it's only a step further in the right direction.

And you can evolve and one does evolve and you become more experienced and you eventually - I'm sure of this - eventually if you evolve, as one should evolve and, I presume one must evolve, you do eventually get right away from Earth conditions and returning to Earth - whether it's in a physical body as an individual or whether it's in communication through mediums - no longer is necessary. One doesn't feel the need or the urge for it and it's not important. In other words you get to a given point where the Earth recedes far into the background and if you should return it's only because you want to do a good job, you want to be of comfort or help to people and uplift them. But the mundane and the material, as such, is of no consequence and is lost forever.

Indeed, I could only come back just occasionally. In fact one of the reasons why I haven't been coming back very much is because I haven't particularly wanted to. I found it extremely difficult as a matter of fact. I found it all very depressing to come back, but just now and again I thought, 'Well, I reckon I should just come back and speak to a few friends if possible and give a few impressions and ideas of how things are with me,' you know. Oh, I always remember the old days.

Greene:

You do don't you.

Olsen:

The sittings and all that sort of thing.

Woods:

George, you get quite a lot of music over there don't you ?

Olsen:

Oh yes plenty of music. Music is a very important factor in our lives you know, George.

Woods:

Yes.

Greene:

Mr. Olsen, did you meet your guide ?

Olsen:

Oh yes, and others. Many guides I didn't even know I... well, I was going to say existed.

Greene:

Was thinking of one particular one.

Olsen:

Whole crowds of them over here.

Greene:

I was thinking of one particular one...

You were very interested in healing when you were on this side.

Olsen:

Yes. Well that's alright to a point. I'm all for healing but, there again it's very important to realise that although a great deal can be done there are certain limitations...

Woods:

You can travel by thought that side, can't you ?

Olsen:

Oh yes. Well in a sense that's true. I mean in a sense it's illusive. You know, we talk but... I say 'we' talk but I realise looking back that... now I can understand that it's very difficult for people to understand and very much more difficult for people to explain, from this side, how things do happen and why they happen, sometimes, and in what form they happen. Oh, I think to myself, 'My goodness me if I...' Well, I don't want to come back of course but if I had my opportunity to come back again I'd live so differently. But of course everybody says that. We all make mistakes. I suppose that's what life is meant to consist of - mistakes. We learn...

How are you in yourself George ? Are you better ?

Woods:

Much better. Very well thank you, Mr. Olsen. But do we ever come over that side and see you in our sleep ?

Olsen:

Oh you've been over. Yes, you've been over quite a bit; you and Betty.

Greene:

Have we ?

Olsen:

Oh yes.

Greene:

Oh, jolly good.

Woods:

Have you met Mr. Flint over there ?

Olsen:

Who did you say ?

Woods:

Mr. Flint over there ?

Olsen:

Oh, you mean the Medium ?

Woods:

Yes.

Olsen:

Oh yes, yes, yes. I've seen him but... um... I could say but I better not.

Flint:

Huh ! Oh dear ! (Laughing)

Sitters:

(Laughing)

Greene:

(To Flint) What have you been getting up to ?

Olsen:

Mediums, eh ?

Greene:

Pardon ?

Olsen:

I wish to God there were more.

Greene:

Yes. It's a pity, isn't it ?

Woods:

A great pity.

Olsen:

Anyway, take care of yourselves. I must go, but all the best Betty and take care of George - although you've got to give him up some time, you know.

Greene:

I'm afraid so, yes.

Olsen:

Don't cling too hard, you know.

Greene:

No.

Woods:

Well thank you so much Mr. Olsen for coming through. It's awfully kind.

Greene:

Bye bye my dear.

Mickey:

Bye bye.

END OF RECORDING

This transcript was supplied by a good friend of the Trust, Mr Simon Lovelock.

With thanks to Joëlle Cerfoglia.