John Douglas Conacher
Douglas Conacher séance
Recorded: February 6th 1962
After a short wait, Mickey answers a question about spirit guides, before Douglas communicates his own thoughts on the subject.
He then talks about the work of those who teach and help
other souls in different spheres
and describes how conditions in the spirit world vary
for both children and adults.
We learn how our perceptions in life affect our experience after death
and there are infinite possibilities of experience to discover,
as we move further away from material conditions.
Reference is made to spirit communication in the distant past
and Douglas mentions the spiritual responsibility of raising children
and the meaning of marriage in the spirit world…
Please read the full transcript below as you listen...
Is it the fifth?
Oh. This séance was recorded on the sixth of February 1962. Sitters Leslie Flint and Mrs Conacher.
That’s now working so...
We can sit...ahh!
Am I in the right spot?
You don’t mind where one sits?
No, it makes no difference.
[Sniffs] I should be interested to know how it plays back on your...machine.
Yes, yes I’ll let you know.
throat] Well I’ve played several tapes belonging to other people,
that they have made on their machines...
so it is perfectly alright.
Yes, oh it
must be yes.
back alright you see.
sure it does.
thank you Mickey.
Thank you for coming.
I’m very pleased to see you. Your husband’s here.
May I ask if anyone else is here?
are a quite a number of other people.
presume some of them are relations of yours and your husbands.
you someone particular in mind?
want you to tell me, but I mean...
person...but had you hoped for someone especially?
Well I was
just wondering if ones guides came Mickey.
Oh yes of
course, but you see, I think they have rather got into the habit of
you rather anticipating your husband...
um, having conversation with him on various matters, that...
deliberately stand to one side.
I...it is, of course, my husband I want to hear most, but it is
rather nice to hear if the guides are there.
they're always here. But what I thought you meant was, that you had
someone particular you wanted to speak to, other than your husband.
In that case I was prepared, of course, to try to make some effort to
do that, but, um, I don’t want to butt in. I’m only trying to be
[Sniggering] - [Sniffs]
are you know Mickey. No, I like my husband to talk, but it just helps
the background if I know if anyone else is here.
you asking just now, the boy, about how people who were present...and
guides in particular.
course, when I come and talk to you there are innumerable people who
are here for various reasons.
Some who are regular communicators, in as much, they are always interested in communicating and always interested in the possibility and are anxious at some time, possibly in the near future, to make contact with you and have, in some instances, endeavoured to communicate with you through other mediums. But, um, they have always, sort of, made it possible for me you know, [they] stood to one side deliberately so I should talk to you.
yes please that’s what I want.
of course, quite a number would like to talk to you, uh, on various
things, some of the guides in particular...Can you hear?
darling, better than ever!
Um, I know
that there are certain points which, um, you possibly want to raise,
things that you‘d like me particularly to talk about, um...Should
you at any time feel so inclined dear you know, I'm only too pleased
to try and answer any of your questions...
want to ask anything in particular.
unless you have anything special to talk about, you did say last time
that you were enjoying teaching very much.
like to talk about that?
in that respect.
when I come and talk to you, to bear in mind that these recordings
may be listened to by many people and possibly, in many instances,
people who are beginning to have some knowledge of this subject and
are interested to know, as much as they possibly can, about life over
here and, uh, what it’s really like and what happens to a person...
when they first pass over and so on. And I bear this in mind and
endeavour, whenever I can, to say the sort of thing, um, that would
interest most people, uh...if you follow?
Yes I do.
Yes, that’s quite right too.
do feel that, at some later date possibly, you may...you may do
something about all this and possibly even write it down and publish
possibility. You may not feel inclined at the moment...
I’ve been working to that end. I’m just beginning to see the
pattern I think.
of course, the point is, to know when you have sufficient material
and what is the sort of material that's best to put into a book and
what is best to leave out.
in itself obviously will take some time.
course it will.
regard to teaching, obviously, one has to have qualifications over
here, just the same as one would have to have qualifications on your
And, um, the average person over here, first must feel their way and gradually assimilate their new life...realise what it’s all about and, in the process of doing that, one does obviously change considerably. And it is not until one reaches a certain peak if you like, uh, that one is in a position obviously to teach. In other words, you must have assimilated a great deal of knowledge and experience in the particular sphere in which you find yourself.
And as you develop further so you begin to realise that you can be of some help to less fortunate people, people particularly who have only just recently come into this new state of being. And one does, therefore, make the effort to enter into the sphere nearest to the earth...that is, the condition of life, you might say, which is general - in as much that it is the sphere into which the majority of people come.
be called the Summer-land?
are rather loose terms. I mean, I know there are many expressions
used, Summerland being one of them. But we must always bear in mind
that this is just merely a term...uh, Summerland to me, um, sounds
very nice of course, but it doesn’t really tell you anything,
um...I mean, otherwise if you are going to say we have a Summerland,
then presumably we have a Winter-land and an Autumn-land!
look at it from the humorous point of view, you see...
Summerland, possibly for some people, is alright but I prefer not to
think of it in that sense. Because a lot of people are obviously in a
condition of life which to them is extremely pleasant, extremely
happy and, um, in which many you might say are quite content to
remain. This of course, it not a good thing.
I’m not suggesting that one should not be content and that one should not, um, feel inclined to make any attempt to better oneself, one obviously must be discontented to a certain extent, in the right sense that is, and one must always strive for something better.
course is the beauty of this life; that there is so much to aspire
to, there is so much to achieve, so much to experience, so much to
discover, it is a world of excitement. And yet at the same time I
wouldn’t like to give the impression that because of all these
opportunities that one is, by the very nature, restless, because to
be restless in itself is not a good thing and yet. at the same time.
it is not a good thing to be completely content completely satisfied.
words, what I am trying to explain is that although we do not have
time here, as you understand the meaning, there is a realisation, if
you like, of time - in as much that we are controlled, to a certain
extent, by our feelings and our emotions. We are affected by
conditions, but these conditions are conditions to which we...whether
we realise it at first or not is neither here nor there, but the
point is...which we have created or helped to create.
We are in a condition of mind, I suppose one should say, and therefore if you are living in a condition of life in which you are personally satisfied, then you have a form of contentment, a form of happiness. It is only when you've begun to realise that this is only an aspect of life. I suppose that is the truest sense...truest thing that one can say about it - that one has an aspect of life, which one accepts, which one is content with. But gradually you begin to realise there must be many other aspects and you begin to seek and, of course, once you start to seek, once your mind is open, then you are ready to receive, and that is where the teachers come in such as myself.
that’s very interesting darling, um...you were going to tell me
about child education weren’t you?
um, then we come up against another interesting factor. You see the
earth, naturally and quite rightly, looks upon the child as someone
uninformed, um, plastic - which of course a child’s mind is and
which of course, to a great extent, an adults mind should be plastic
- it should be able to be reached.
child, it is not always necessarily more difficult to teach. In fact,
I would go as far as to say that if I had the choice between, over
here that is, in teaching a child or an adult, if I wanted to take
the easiest course - which of course one doesn’t necessarily - but
if one wanted to, a child would be much more pliable much more easy
to reach, much more, shall we say, able to be helped.
the average adult, uh, is more difficult. They have reached so-called
adult life on earth, they have otherwise...in other words, they have
accepted to themselves certain ideas, certain conditions. They've
accepted certain factors in life as, uh, gospel, as it were, they
have taken for granted. They’ve accepted certain laws as being
right or just, according to their outlook and so on. In other words,
an adult has more of a formed mind...
invariably, we must always remember this, always, nearly always,
invariably, a materialistically minded outlook.
child has not reached this stage of accepting ideas to the extent
that the adult has. It has not been affected so much, shall we say,
by the earth and life on earth and by people; preconceived ideas,
strong views that people have placed into the minds of the young.
Have you schools darling? Special buildings for it?
Oh yes. We
have wonderful buildings - so fantastically beautiful some of them -
that, that it really is an impossible thing to describe. One cannot
depict or describe here, uh, in an earthly language, of a spiritual
building. Uh, these buildings are divided into sections, many of
them. I suppose you would say they were graded, like schools on earth
are graded - I don’t suggest that they are classes in the sense
that it's form 1, 2, 3 and 4 and so on - it isn’t exactly that.
But you see, each teacher has specific work to do, has a certain type of lesson to give, a demonstration to show, a work to perform. Um, for instance, in certain classes, people; children or adults for that matter, are taught how to see for themselves.
sound a most peculiar thing to say, 'to see for one’s self'. You
would think that automatically when you come here that you would see,
well of course, you do see, but what you see is, to a great extent,
coloured by your own self.
words you can distort, you can 'not see' perfectly. For instance, a
similar thing could be applied - as a simile that is - on earth;
people go around, they see everything, yet they see very little, they
see very, very little indeed, they miss so much...um, many people,
for instance, will go into the country, shall we say, on your
side...but they don’t really see the country. They see
fields, they see trees, they see rivers and so on, but it doesn’t
register, it doesn’t have any real effect on them. They don’t
enter into it, they don’t become part of it. It doesn’t have any
strong reality, to them.
And so it
is over here, that there are many people who inherit or who come into
a condition of life to which they are not adjusted - I suppose that’s
the best way to put it. They don’t see and we teach them to
see, we teach them to know, to feel, to enter into it, to become part
of...and they begin to expand. It's really...what we do is, we affect
some auric emanation which comes from them.
that’s very interesting darling. Do you use books?
To some people listening to this, that must sound most strange, but
it’s true. On certain spheres books are used, because it’s a
common accepted thing to read. You see a person coming from your
world is in no state, um, of development to be able to assimilate
knowledge by inspiration, uh, by bringing, as it were, unto one’s
here you are taught to assimilate, to, to draw to yourself. You see
here, if I can put it like this - it’s a very bad simile - people
can be or should be like magnets. They should be able to attract to
themselves all sorts of conditions of things and above all, attract
people of a higher nature and a higher level, who can enter into
harmony with them and by the transmission of thought and the
vibration, can so help and be helped, um...
the average person and we must always remember we are thinking of the
average person, they are not ready. They are not yet sufficiently
endowed with insight, with foresight. They are not sufficiently
conscious of the tremendous possibilities of this world and that is
what we really, really teach them in the early initial stages.
We show them that although, for instance, at first they can read books, any book practically - because everything that has been written, everything that has been registered in human life, human society, can be obtained here. In other words, it can be tapped. It's a source that can be tapped - it's the only way that I can express this. If it is felt necessary for a library of books, then a library of books, to that person being essential, are an accepted fact. But it’s when you get beyond all this, when you realise that knowledge, true knowledge, true experience, is not necessarily found in books only - but in life itself.
words, you learn to tune in to vast spheres and vast possibilities of
those spheres. In other words, when your consciousness becomes more
open to receive, so you dispense with the mundane, with the
materialistic, if you like, accepted ideas of things and you open up
yourself to tremendous possibilities - in as much that you begin to
visualise, you begin to see - and that you it is one of
the things that we teach. How to see. How to see mentally and
spiritually the things that are all round and about you, which at
first you do not see - and often which are invisible, because you
yourself, by your outlook and because you have still have many of the
conditions of earth life attached to you which you haven’t
discarded, you become...you are blinded.
Well that’s very interesting dear [cough]. Very interesting indeed.
mean, when a person first comes here, take an average...I’m
thinking of course of one’s own race, material earthly race...an
Englishman for instance. I mean he’d, uh...I don’t say that he
would have a pre-conceived idea that when he came to heaven he’d
have...he’d have a sitting room and a fire, I don’t mean that
the point is, that the average Englishman would not really be happy
unless he had the sort of surroundings to which he'd been accustomed
on earth. If you were to put the average Englishman, shall we say, in
an Eastern setting and you were to give him the kind of atmosphere
which is natural, which is accepted, to an Eastern, he wouldn’t be
wouldn’t be able to adjust himself very easily. It’s true of
course, that when on earth people, shall we say, from England, go to
India. They live there for a number of years and, to some extent,
they accept the Indian way of life within reason, but they still like
and surround themselves with the sort of things which are common to
their upbringing and common to their nationality.
Well over here on the initial stages of development or the earthly planes or near the earth planes, you do have...because of the vast numbers of peoples of all nations...you have every possible, conceivable type of life...
it's in the way of life, whether it's in architecture and design and
so on. And indeed, on certain spheres, spheres very near the earth,
where people of like mind to the earth live, they even eat the kind
of foods which they consider are essential.
You see the whole point is, that as we, um, get further and further away from the earth, the less like earth we become, the less earthly we are, the less we think and, uh-erm, are in tune with the earth.
obviously, the nearer planes to the earth are merely a reflection of
the earth. Because they are inhabited by people who have only perhaps
recently left the earth, but...although in some instances, maybe
hundreds of years. It depends, because some people do not progress
in consequence you have...and that's why of course they're so
intriguingly interesting. That’s why no one, in a sense, really
need fear dying, because whatever sphere they go to, it's bound to
be, most certainly is, excitingly interesting. Because even on the
lower spheres you do find vast variety of scenery, vast variety of
buildings...uh, in fact, in certain spheres near the earth there are
exact counterparts of earthly buildings.
for instance, who...who felt very intensely, shall we say, about a
particular building would find on their arrival here, an exact
counterpart of that building. For instance, if you had a person who
was an architect and had designed a building which they were very
proud of, which they loved very much; because they had put so much of
themselves into it, because it was a part of their own creative
thought and mind everything about it was partly, you might say, of
themselves, they would find such a building identically
Yes. Well that’s very, very interesting...
thought is so tremendous in its power. On your side everything is
created by the power of thought, everything that man has created
originates from his thought force. You use material substances to
create these things, that is, in regard to things like, uh,
architecture, buildings or whether it’s painting or music...you use
violins, pianos, so on and so on, and all these aids are essential.
Over here on the lower spheres - and when I talk about lower spheres
I would not like you to think that because I mention them as being
lower, they are bad spheres...
they are not. They are spheres which are very near the earth plane
and in consequence, very similar. So you do have, on certain spheres
near the earth, great art galleries, great pictures, great artists
who create new works, and so on and so on, great orchestras, great
they, the individuals that is, develop and their, uh, outlook becomes
so much wider and their experience more vast, more...more expressive,
uh, they are able, as they go into other spheres, they are able to
create works which are utilized in these lower spheres and in other
gradual progression, slow, often very slow that it’s hardly
perceptible. In fact, there are no demarcation lines between spheres.
People talk glibly about the lower spheres or this sphere and
perhaps, to some extent, I have talked in that sense. But what I want
to convey is; there is no such thing as a demarcation line, there is
no such thing as the end of a territory and another one beginning.
They all intermingle, they all co-mingle. But the point is, that you
do not become conscious of another sphere until such time as you have
progressed to that point where you become conscious of it.
quite understand that and darling, what is the ultimate aim or end of
all this progression?
were to know that dear I think that would perhaps not be a good thing
and I don’t think it would be a wise thing and I don’t think
there is such a thing. In other words, what I am trying to say is,
that I do not think that there is any end. I do not think there is
any ultimate goal...um, this may strike some people very forcibly and
possibly will not even like it. But the point is, that I do not
honestly think there is any ultimate goal, in as much, that there is
any final goal.
No, I see.
would say that we, each and everyone, has a goal which we
strive for, that’s true enough. But the point is, that when we
reach that particular point, then we begin to visualise greater
vistas, greater possibilities and we go on again.
In other words, there is no such thing - as far as I can tell - as end and I doubt very much that there can be.
one is to be in a conscious world, then there must always be
something new, something exciting, something left to strive for and
experience. That is life. It's motion perpetual.
But if one
reached the apex, then no matter how marvellous that was, that state
of being, eventually - because there was nothing left to strive for,
nothing left to assimilate - well one couldn’t exist in it.
that is the art of life, the art of living. Whether it is on your
side or whether it’s on this. But there is always tomorrow, there
is always a possibility of what may take place, what may come, what
new experience one may have or find. You see, the point is, that with
your world, you realise that there is an ultimate end, in a physical
sense at least...
um, although one, invariably on earth, endeavours not to think too
deeply about it, unless of course you are spiritualistically inclined
- but the point is, the average person does not like to think about
death, doesn’t like to think about getting old. They dread, the
average person, dreads getting old.
But only because, uh, they have no knowledge. It’s a kind of fear. Also because they do not like the idea of losing their youth and their vigour and vitality and so on...and, um, because they still think that there are many things they want to do.
In other words, the earth world is limited to a point, but there is, nevertheless, always the possibility of going on a little further and a little further, although the ultimate end, physically at least, must come. The whole point is, the secret of life surely is, that there is always is something new?
were constantly doing - I know you can say to me 'oh yes, well
if the average person does do more or less everything the same day in
and day out' - but what makes life exciting or what makes life more
interesting is, whoever the person is; the possibility of some
change, no matter how small or some new experience. Perhaps to
experience some new book even perhaps to read or some new music to
listen to. In other
words, it is not just the constant repetition that matters in life,
but the possibility of an adventure, in some shape or form, something
new happening, some new experience, some new friend to contact or
meet, some new conversation.
so many little things which really are, possibly in some senses, the
most important things about life. You see, the point is that we never
stop. I think once one reached...one reaches a point where nothing
interests one any more, when there is nothing left to experience, to
assimilate...that is why I think some people, although there physical
body is more or less intact and perfectly all right, something
suddenly happens to them. I don’t say this as an explanation in
every instance, but it does happen with some people, that for no
reason at all, they just leave your world. I do feel there are some
people who have lost complete interest. Nothing holds them.
Yes. Oh I
consequence they just lie down - lay down and die.
of course the fundamental truth about all this is I think,
that, of course, love - and by love I mean real spiritual love, uh,
revitalising love, a power which is so tremendous, of which very few
people, really, on earth have any true knowledge - is one of the most
important factors. Love is vital. Love is important. It is this power
of love which overcomes so much evil, overcomes so much tragedy. In
fact I would go as far as to say that love in itself is possibly the
greatest power and force of all. Because by love one can achieve so
much. So much more than one possibly could ever realise while on
People talk glibly about faith. But faith, and truly this is so,
faith can remove mountains and I mean that in a physical sense. I
really believe that if humanity, individually and collectively, had
sufficient faith, the whole course of the world would be changed, the
whole condition of life could be altered. So few people have any real
faith; faith in goodness and the power of goodness, what it can
If one is
desperately in need and I don’t mean in the sense only materially,
by any means, but desperately in need, I’m sure that one’s faith
can bring about such changes, can bring about such extraordinary
things that human beings would be amazed.
I do know
this...and I have talked to many ancients; uh, Chinese, Egyptians,
over here. Some of whom I have learnt a great deal from...um, I have
discovered that, um, thousands of years ago in ancient China and in
ancient Egypt, they had discovered things which today, uh, are taken
for granted and certain things which have not been discovered...in
other words they have yet to be re-discovered.
ancient Chinese had a tremendous philosophy, they had a tremendous
power, uh, and certain individuals, certain great teachers; Chinese
and Egyptian, um, were able to achieve a tremendous amount of, what I
suppose today would be called miracles.
Yes. I am
very fond of my Egyptian guide darling and, of course, ancient Egypt
understood colour therapy thousands of years ago and it’s only
coming in here now isn’t it?
ancient, uh, certain ancient Egyptians and certain, uh, certain
Chinese, uh, had a wonderful form of communication between our world
and yours...uh, unfortunately, like so many things, it became
distorted and ill-used and often used, unfortunately, particularly
amongst the Egyptians, in a very material sense....uh, basically,
fundamentally, there was much good, but, um, it became twisted and
used for power, material power that is - which of course was partly,
a part factor in the decline of the ancient Egyptian civilisation.
But that’s another long, long story.
You must tell me about that sometime darling. Sometime, will
you tell me about marriage in the spirit world?
I feel it must be very different from on earth, because after all, there is no cooking or no sinks, no dusting...
marriage, of course, does not exist here.
that is purely a manmade, uh, condition...um, marriage here is a
marriage of mind and of spirit. It is a blending of souls, which of
course a marriage on earth should be in its purest sense, but seldom
is I’m afraid.
point is that, um, we do not obviously marry. We have no giving and
taking in marriage and there's no possessing here. One does not, for
instance, desire to possess, in any shape or form or in any sense,
is completely in harmony with another soul. You may be tremendously
in awe, tremendously tuned in and have like thoughts, like outlook,
like mind. But at the same time there is no possessing, there is no,
sort of, giving and taking in marriage, there is no birth in the
sense as you understand it, um...
all this is natural law. On earth you obviously have natural law too,
but you cannot regulate natural law by ceremonies, material
ceremonies, which are binding, so-called binding. You see, two people
will only remain together when they are absolutely right for each
other, when they are so, sort of, tuned in and this love is so
overwhelming, so all-embracing that you naturally, instinctively,
desire to be in one...as one with that person.
on earth, just because two people are married I’m afraid that
should not be considered a binding thing. Of course, this will not be
popular I know, in some instances people will condemn it, but the
point is, that a marriage doesn’t bind two people together, only in
the sight of the law.
What binds people together, surely, is love and the desire to assist and to help each other, to expand and to grow in mental and spiritual stature and, um...having children in itself is a tremendous responsibility, not purely in the material sense when on earth, but a spiritual one. Very few people realise the tremendous spiritual responsibility they have towards their children. I don’t mean by that bringing them up in some narrow creedal sense, uh...
you are not only giving a child a body, you're giving it a spiritual
body too. You're giving it a spiritual birth. You see, so many people
think when they have children that it’s just a physical aspect. In
fact, that is the tragedy of marriage, that is the tragedy of
innumerable souls on earth; that they merely think on the material
level. It’s a duel thing when on earth; a material and spiritual
one. Unless those two things, two aspects, go in hand together in
balance, there can be no true happiness.
quite see that [cough]. Yes its very, very interesting darling.
have to go darling.
have liked to have stayed ages, because there are so many points...
Oh I think
this is, um...
raise, so many interesting things to discuss. But we’ll continue
and we'll discuss many, many aspects of life.
two weeks time...
But all my
love and blessings...
very much darling.
I’ll talk to you again soon.
Wasn’t he wonderful?
fabulous wasn’t he?
Ha! Yes, I
think he's simply wonderful. I think he just excelled himself today.
END OF RECORDING
This transcript was kindly created for the Trust by Coleen McKenzie - April 2018