Chopin talks with sitter Rose Creet
about the development of his musical talent
and of his recollections from earlier lifetimes.
Rose can be heard using the name Mamoose when she refers to Leslie Flint.
In some Aboriginal cultures this name means 'Chief.'
Part way through the recording the mechanical sound of the original
recording equipment
can be heard, as the reels turn.
This does not detract from the quality of this clear communication.
Read the full transcript below, as you listen...
Present: Leslie
Flint, Rose Creet.
Communicators: Mickey, Frédéric Chopin.
Mickey:
...do
you ever talk in your sleep ?
Rose:
Oh
darling, I'm so pleased to hear your voice.
Mickey:
And how are you this afternoon, Rosie ?
Rose:
I'm very well, thank you.
Mickey.
Good.
Rose:
Mmm.
Mickey:
I knew you was coming today.
Rose:
Well
of course you knew.
Flint:
Of
course he did (Laughs.)
Rose:
How
could you not know ?
Are we going to have anything exciting ?
Mamoose seems to think that we're
going to have a most thrilling afternoon.
Mickey:
Does he really ?
Rose:
Mmm.
Mickey:
I wonder why ?
Rose:
Was he in trance last night ?
Mickey:
Trance ?
Rose:
He says he was - woke up finding himself talking some foreign
language.
Mickey:
Oh. I wouldn't know anything about
that. I have enough to do with doing the day shift - let alone the
night shift.
Flint
and Rose:
(Laughter.)
Rose:
I'd
love to know. (Laughing.)
Chopin:
I was there last night.
Rose:
You
were ? Frédéric ?
Chopin:
Experimenting.
Rose:
Oh,
I... I... Didn't you hear me say it ?
Chopin:
I know. I am always there trying to
do something, you know. I'm always experimenting whenever I can have
an opportunity, you know. And I often think the best time is when the
Medium is completely unconscious and unaware, you know. And
occasionally I make the attempt to see if I can make some contact in
the sleep state, you know.
Rose:
Yes
and I know what you were doing: practising your Polish.
Chopin:
Speaking in my own language, you
know.
Rose:
Yes.
Chopin:
I want to be able to be proficient
in trying to convey my thoughts into sound via the Medium, you see.
Rose:
Yes.
Chopin:
I think we'll have to put him right
out in sittings.
Rose:
Yes,
that's a very good idea, Frédéric. Are you practicing for my friend
?
Chopin:
Well, I don't know. I'm just
practicing.
Rose:
For
whom ?
Chopin:
Anyone. Not just one person in particular.
Rose:
Oh,
I wish I knew Polish.
Chopin:
Why ?
Rose:
Why
don't you practice now, if you can ? Won't you try ?
Chopin:
No, I prefer to speak in English
otherwise it would be unintelligible to you. Besides, it is much more
difficult and I want to do it in my own way.
Flint
and Rose:
(Laughing.)
Rose:
You
will always have your own way, won't you ?
Chopin:
Because my way is the right way. My
way is the sensible way.
Rose:
I
see. Alright, sir !
Chopin:
In any case, we shall not have any
opportunity to speak to anyone in my language for some time.
Rose:
You
won't ?
Chopin:
In any case, I have my own reasons.
Rose:
Why ?
Chopin:
I want to be able to be proficient.
I want to be able to be master of the situation.
Rose:
Oh,
yes.
Chopin:
I don't want anyone to be able to
say, 'Ah, well, he didn't speak very good Polish,' or something.
Besides, don't forget the Polish of 150 years ago is not the same as
it is today.
Rose:
Oh,
isn't it ?
Chopin:
And in consequence I have to learn to speak more modern.
Rose:
Oh.
Alright, Frédéric, how do you pronounce your name ? You say it's
Chopin, Chopin.
Chopin:
Show-pan.
Rose:
Eh
?
Chopin:
Show-pan.
Rose:
Chopin
?
Chopin:
Chopin.
Rose:
or
Shoo-pan ?
Chopin:
No 'Shoe' : 'Show'.
Rose:
Chopin.
Chopin:
Chopin
Rose:
Oh.
Chopin:
Why do you say 'Oh' like that ?
Rose:
Well.
I thought I heard you say 'Shoe-pan' or something like that. It might
have been a slip.
Chopin:
No.
Rose:
Eh
?
Chopin:
Now, now, now, what is it ? What
were you going to say ?
Rose:
That'll
be marvellous if I brought my friend and you spoke fluent Polish
because he said, 'the only thing that would make me believe, is if
Chopin speaks to me in Polish.'
Chopin:
Well, we will see, we will see. I
am not so concerned at the moment about your particular friend.
Rose:
No.
Chopin:
I am concerned about other things.
Rose:
Well,
I'm very concerned about knowing all about ancient Egypt if you'd
like to say something about it to me.
Chopin:
You are concerned about knowing
about ancient Egypt.
Rose:
Yes.
Chopin:
I should have thought there were
much more important things to discuss than ancient Egypt.
Rose:
There
are lots of important things but you see, the beginning when we were
both in ancient Egypt. If we could just climb up a little by degrees,
you see ? From ancient Egypt and the next step, forward. Don't you
think ?
Chopin:
No, I don't.
Rose:
Well
I - you know all about it, Frédéric, I don't you see. And ancient
Egypt has always appealed to me tremendously.
Chopin:
That is not surprising. But lots of
things have appealed to you at different times.
Rose:
Yes
but you are in the position to enlighten me, aren't you ?
Chopin:
I feel in the mood to tease you.
Rose:
Alright
then, tease today. Do whatever you like today. I'm quite ready for
anything.
Chopin:
That's the trouble with you, you're
always ready.
Rose:
(Laughs)
Well, you are in the mood. I don't want to destroy your mood. I can
cope with it, I hope.
Chopin:
I should think you could manage to
cope with me.
Rose:
(Laughs.)
Chopin:
Well on the throne of Egypt there
was a king. His name was Akhenaton.
He was a very wise and very fine
ruler but very unpopular with the priests, with the religion of his
time. He had ideas, 'New Thought,' you could call it, which did not
please certain persons in high places. And they did a great deal to
try to complicate his life and his attitude to the people. The people
were fond of Akhenaton but the priests were losing ground, were
losing power, because of the new ideas, religious ideas of the king.
You know, for a long time, you and I, we were, how you say, seekers.
We were desirous of finding out truth.
We were brought up in a
religious circle. I was brought up in a religious house. You also,
from very early childhood, were given to the Church to be what you
would call a hand-maiden of the Church at the time. But we saw the
inner workings of the priests who did not approve but it was not
possible to do anything about it. Fundamentally we had great faith
but our faith was shaken by individuals in the priesthood and we
became interested, you know, in the teaching, the new thought of
Akhenaton. But eventually we became suspect by the priests and we
have to make an escape to save our lives. I have told you some of
this before.
Rose:
Yes.
What, you and I escaped ?
Chopin:
We escape...for a time, but we were
caught.
Rose:
Oh.
And then what happened, Frédéric ?
Chopin:
Oh, we were put to death.
Rose:
Put
to death !
Chopin:
Secretly. It would not have done
for the priests to come out into the open that they were putting
people to death because of their religious belief, which would not
have been popular with the people; especially the people who were in
the Church itself. But... oh well, we were not allowed to live. That
was our first contact, as far as my memory serves me.
Rose:
And
then what happened after death ?
Chopin:
Oh after death we were here for a
little while together, but only for a short time. Then we return in
Rome, in ancient Rome at the time of Caesar.
Rose:
Oh
yes.
Chopin:
We were Christians. We were always
seeking, as I've told you before, for truth. But there again our
religious beliefs were not popular. Our seeking for truth lead us
into many difficulties. And we were brother and sister.
Rose:
Brother
and sister ? Oh.
Chopin:
And so eventually we have to escape
from Rome at the time the Christians were being persecuted. And we
live and settle in what today I think you call Southern Italy and we
live peacefully and quietly in a small village. Our parents had died
many years previously. Neither of us married, which is not
surprising, for although we did not realise it (we were brother and
sister of course) there was something that prevented us within our
own make up from desiring to seek elsewhere for happiness. We were
content to be left in peace. I was - I know you laugh at this - I was
a carpenter. A very good one.
Rose:
A
carpenter ?
Chopin:
A very good carpenter.
Rose:
Oh
yes.
Chopin:
You know, even in my last
incarnation, although I was a musician, I was clever with my fingers
in other directions. I could create: make things. I used to amuse
myself with making things in my last incarnation out of wood. This is
something which probably has never appeared in any books about me,
but...
Rose:
No.
Chopin:
I used to like to sculpt, as what
you say, to make, to create things, you know.
Rose:
Yes.
Chopin:
But that is another thing.
Rose:
Yes,
but carry on, Frédéric. You were...
Chopin:
You were very artistic too. You
were able to sew beautifully and embroider. This is how we made our
living in this Roman incarnation. I would do my work as a carpenter
making various things and you with the sewing and needlework, because
you were very clever. But, you know, between us there was a great
happiness. I lived to be a very old man. You pass over when you were
in your forties and I live many years after you.
Rose:
And
what did I do in the meantime after I died ?
Chopin:
After you died, ah, you were here with me.
Rose:
Where
?
Chopin:
Over here.
Rose:
Over
there ?
Chopin:
Neither of us had become musicians.
You are still in the process of becoming one, of course. But I had
not done anything with regard to music, except in Egypt I had a
certain amount of musical education, but one must remember that there
were few instruments. Mostly they were what you would call a kind of
lyre.
Rose:
Yes.
Chopin:
...which
I was fairly proficient on. That was my first instinct for music. Yet
strangely enough in my second incarnation I have no recollection of
music at all - of creating or playing an instrument. But, it was in
my third incarnation that I begin to commence my artistic musical
career.
Rose:
That
was in...
Chopin:
That
was in the time of the Borgia family...
Rose:
Oh
yes.
Chopin:
...which
you've probably read and heard so much about.
Rose:
Fourteen
hundred and something...
Chopin:
It was in that period that art was
flourishing. It was appreciated probably at that period more than it
has been appreciated before or since. Musical instruments were
becoming more, shall we say, understood. They were being created and
people were coming forward who had some experience and knowledge and
were able to play and to compose. In that particular period, of
course, music had advanced to a certain extent in comparison to the
earlier times and I had many abilities in as much that I could paint
and I could play and compose. Some of my compositions of that early
period I presume, might still be in being: that is, there may still
be traces of my music left.
Rose:
That
was the time when you were... what was your name then ? Er... oh
dear... What was your name then, Frédéric ?
Chopin:
My name... I had many names. Like
all Italian children I was given many, many names.
Rose:
No,
but the time you were composing in the time of the Borgia.
Chopin:
Giuseppe.
Rose:
What
?
Chopin:
Giuseppe.
Rose:
Giuseppe. Oh.
Chopin:
(Unintelligible) and this is where we become linked with
[Rudolph] Valentino and his family.
Rose:
Oh,
yes.
Chopin:
Because his family were related to our family.
Rose:
Oh
yes, and Mamoose comes in there ?
Chopin:
He comes into the picture there for
the first time.
Rose:
Oh. They were brothers - they were two brothers, weren't they ?
Chopin:
They were brothers, centuries ago
in that particular period. The Guglielmini family. The Guglielmini
family.
Rose:
Eh
?
Chopin:
I try to pronounce for you the
family's name. The Guglielmini family.
Rose:
Gugliel...
Chopin:
Guglielmini family.
Rose:
Guglielmini
family. Yes.
Chopin:
There were links forged there in
that period which were repeated through various incarnations
afterwards. You know, you were betrothed, how you say, betrothed ?
Rose:
Betrothed,
yes.
Chopin:
...when
you were quite a small child and I remember our marriage ceremony or
service - I remember so much about our lives in that period; probably
more so in that period than perhaps any other. For it is probably
because partly, that we were husband and wife for the first time and
also because my music and your interest in music was first born, at
least it first was apparent, you know.
Rose:
Oh.
Oh.
Chopin:
If ever you go to Italy, which you
probably will do one day, you go to Rome...you'll see some traces of
my work.
Rose:
Of
your work ?
Chopin:
Some.
Rose:
Mmm.
Don't stop, Frédéric.
Chopin:
There is a very old family called
the Bellini family.
Rose:
Vallini
?
Chopin:
No, no: Bellini.
Rose:
Oh,
Bellini.
Chopin:
...which
was our house. There are still people of that family today and there
is still work of the Bellini brothers, for we were a large family and
I and my brother were both artistic. My brother was particularly so.
He was a very clever artist and do many fine works and I also paint
but not so well, I don't think or believe. But my interest in music
was advanced at that time in that incarnation and I composed various
music for special celebrations and Church services. Also for - also
for, what you call, I suppose...(unintelligible) to a dance, as you
say: Pavanes, things of that nature.
Rose:
Did
we have any children Frédéric ?
Chopin:
No.
Rose:
No
?
Chopin:
No. No children. You always seem to
have a habit of dying young - for only one reason why this time
you're dying old.
Rose:
I
see.
Rose
and Flint:
(Laughter.)
Rose:
And
what of Valentino ? What - does he come into the picture again ?
Chopin:
He comes into the picture several
times. He is, of course, a very old soul. He is a very great psychic.
He was always interested in the occult. In that particular period it
was dangerous to dabble in the occult - that is if the Church were
aware of it. The Church was always very powerful. I was interested in
the occult too and so were you. But we had not a great deal of
knowledge in those days but we have had some experience. We have
great belief in life after death and communication, but our
opportunity to delve into the subject was not tremendous; it was not
very great.
But Valentino he was an extraordinary character. He was
always very exciting and we sometimes, when he was with us or we were
with him, when we travelled, we go to Naples. We stay for a little
time in that place and we would learn a great deal about psychic
things from him. But we were all rather afraid of it. For in those
days black magic was very much rife and it was considered very unwise
to have anything to do with anything of that nature. Besides it was
more than that - it was dangerous. There were many witches, though we
realise now that they were not necessarily evil people at all. But in
those days one was very superstitious.
Rose:
Yes.
Was Mamoose there as well ?
Chopin:
He was there too. He was a brother
of Valentino in those days. The Valentina family is a very old
family. There was two groups - it's very difficult to explain. In
Italy in those days there were houses, there were families which were
very powerful. And there was great feuds between families, between
various sects and peoples and the country was ruled in sections by
nobles.
And
there was great antagonism between certain families and there was a
great deal of unpleasant incidents in which I was not involved, but
he was. He was killed in a duel with another family. Very much like
the Romeo and Juliet, the Capulet and so on.
Rose:
Oh
I see.
Chopin:
But
that was common in those days.
Rose:
Yes.
Chopin:
Families
ruled large areas of the land. You know, it was not until 1700 that I
really developed my music, in any shape or sense, in the way that I
realised music should be developed. It was in that period that I do a
great deal of work and compose, but I never became what you term
famous. But I compose a great number of works, which possibly some
are still played today, but mostly for the Church.
I know you don't
like Church music but in those days most music was composed for the
Church. One received support from the Church.
It was very essential
in those days to live also. I'm now talking about a later
incarnation.
And in Italy and in Spain and in certain other
countries on the continent music was very much appreciated and very
much supported by the Church and many people who were musically
inclined were given great help by the Church. The Church in some
respects was, you might say, the supporters of music. They - we owe a
great deal to the Church from the point of view of the development of
music.
Rose:
Yes.
Chopin:
Some
of the monks, for instance, were very psychic and had a great deal of
inspiration. They were not, perhaps what you would call Mediums, in
the same sense as you understand them today. But in their meditation
and prayer and in their kind of life which they live and lead they
have much given to them of a mental nature. I think the majority of
those who were in monasteries and attached to the Church - where they
have much time to meditate and give over to prayer and thought - they
were very much more sensitised to things of the spirit in consequence
and received great inspiration. And some of the monks were very
musical and they gave a great deal to music and helped with its
development.
Rose:
Yes.
Chopin:
But
it was not until my last incarnation that I really became a fully
fledged musician and I think all the previous experiences and
knowledge that I had assessed and amassed, you know, over centuries
of time and...So much came out in that incarnation, that I think it
is in my last incarnation that I really achieved what I had set out
to do, what I set out to learn, what I had developed within myself as
a person and as a character. All my past life, to some extent, can be
traced in my music. That's why when I was very, very young I used to
surprise people by what I could do with the piano, what I could bring
out of the piano.
Rose:
Yes.
Chopin:
But
like you know, my lessons were very sketchy when I was young.
Rose:
Yes
I know.
Chopin:
I had very little musical training
of any consequence, you know, until I was about twelve.
Rose:
I
know that Frédéric. Elsner couldn't have known that Żywny, you
remember Żywny ?
Chopin:
Yes I do...
Rose:
Your
first teacher ? He couldn't teach you anymore when you were - he'd
started you when you were about six or seven...
Chopin:
I
know...
Rose:
...and
he couldn't do anything more with you, he said.
Chopin:
No.
Rose:
And
then you started to compose very early. You composed - started at the
age of eight. I've got some of those compositions.
Chopin:
I started - it was a natural
instinct with me.
Rose:
Yes.
Chopin:
You know, it’s an extraordinary
thing that I had hardly any teaching, any lessons, in regard to
playing the piano.
Rose:
Mmm. No, I know.
Chopin:
It all by instinct. It came natural
to me.
Rose:
Yes.
Chopin:
When I was very young I would sit at the piano and just strum, as
you say, my fingers over the keys. Anyhow, it came automatically.
Rose:
Yes.
Oh, interesting. Do go on, Frédéric, if you can.
Chopin:
You know there's a little thing I
composed: C minor.
Rose:
C
minor ? What was it ?
Chopin:
I don't think you have ever heard
it. I could not have been more than seven of eight when I started
playing it.
Rose:
I
wish you could hum it.
Chopin:
I don't know if I can hum it. But
later on, many years later, I use that simple little tune, theme, in
a later work.
Rose:
Oh
?
Chopin:
It is only three notes.
Rose:
Mmm.
Improvised on three notes did you ?
Chopin:
On three notes.
Rose:
What
was that, Frédéric ?
Tell me...
(Silence)
Flint:
He's teasing you.
Rose:
Mmm.
Flint:
Trying to make you find out for
yourself.
Rose:
I
know. (Laughs.)
I'm thinking hard.
(Silence)
Chopin:
(Very quietly) Dum, dum, dee, dum,
dee.....
Rose:
What
?
Flint:
He's humming something, isn't he ?
Rose:
Yes.
Chopin:
[Continues to hum quietly]
Rose:
I
can't hear you.
Flint:
I can't either, it's so faint.
Rose:
Dum,
da, da, da, da, da, da, da ?
Chopin:
Three notes.
Rose:
That's
the thing that's come out in your um...third movement of
your...um...Sonata ? *SEE NOTE 1 BELOW
Chopin:
You remember. You have found it.
Rose:
Eh ?
Chopin:
I wondered how long it would take
you.
Rose:
(Laughs.) I had thought of it but I wasn't quite sure.
Chopin:
You see ? The basic.
Rose:
Eh ?
Chopin:
You take it right down to basic,
you see.
Rose:
Yes.
That is it ?
Chopin:
I improvise on it and improvise,
you know.
Rose:
Yes.
Chopin:
I remember once a very amusing
thing happened when I was composing something. It was a very old
piano. I was away from my own home. It was somewhere where the piano
had been standing and had got damp and the notes, certain notes would
stick, you know.
Rose:
Yes.
Chopin:
And
no matter, I'd think, 'Ah, never mind. This is a test or something',
you know. I'd say to myself, 'Ah - but I'll see what I can do with
the notes that don't stick,' and I composed something from that, you
see.
Rose:
Yes.
What was that ?
Chopin:
A piece of my music where it seems
as if there's something lacking, something missing - as if it's
pretty obvious that something is wrong and yet it is not wrong. It is
right. It is musically right. But anyone who is very clever would say
to himself,
'Mmm. Now what is this man doing here. There is something
unusual. Why does this miss ?'
It's almost as if there are some notes
missing. In fact in certain copies of my music, even in my lifetime,
they would put in certain notes that I had intended to be left out.
Rose:
Oh.
Chopin:
It's a Prelude.
Rose:
A
Prelude ?
Chopin:
Mmm. (Silence)
Never mind.
Rose:
Oh
no, no, I must get it.
Chopin:
You have got it.
Rose:
I
have ?
The first one ?
Chopin:
It is most strange, at least so
some people think. But I composed that on a very old piano where a
lot of the notes would not play and where the pedals were not working
properly. It was, sort of, a kind of test for me and I found great
amusement out of it. It is an amusing piece of composition.
Rose:
Mmm.
If it's amusing it must be one of your Scherzos.
Chopin:
No, no. It is amusing to a
musician.
Rose:
Oh.
Well, I'm not a musician, unfortunately. Your first Prelude is very
peculiar.
Chopin:
I'm talking about a peculiar
Prelude.
Rose:
Yes.
The first one ?
Chopin:
B, B, B, B. ** [SEE NOTE 2
BELOW]
Rose:
Mmm.
Flint:
He said something about B.
Rose:
Yes.
Flint:
Is that in B, whatever it is ?
Rose:
Are
you giving me a lesson or trying to find out...testing me ?
Chopin:
No, no. I'm not trying to test you.
Why should I try to test you ? Where my music is concerned you could
pass a lot of tests.
Rose:
(Laughs.)
Chopin:
Not for playing, but for knowing
about it. You have several copies of my Preludes.
Rose:
Yes.
Chopin:
I mean...a repeat.
Rose:
Yes,
I did have but I've given...
Chopin:
Ah, well I was just wondering if in
this particular Prelude we are talking about...if various suppliers
of the music also make these alterations.
Rose:
But
all your music is altered, Frédéric.
Chopin:
Well, there should not be...
Rose:
A
good many of them is altered and the pedalling is completely in the
wrong place, I think.
Chopin:
You think. That is most likely, but
the original...
Rose:
Yes.
Chopin:
...the
original, published in my lifetime, are the correct...although even
so there are mistakes in some, of course.
Rose:
Those
German publishers were the best for you: 'Hottoff' or something. ***
[SEE NOTE 3 BELOW]
Chopin:
They do good copies.
Rose:
Yes.
But those are impossible to get now.
Chopin:
Not impossible for you. Nothing is
impossible for you where I am concerned.
Rose:
No,
because you're with me. You make me get them. Shall I try and get
them.
Chopin:
You will get them.
Rose:
I
will ?
Chopin:
Don't worry, you will get more
things than you realise in connection with myself. In the next ten
years...
Rose:
Oh
God...
Chopin:
Don't say 'Oh God' like that. In
the next ten years you have many surprises and interesting
experiences with regard to myself and my music and our lives
together. But I am not ready yet and I don't want to be bothered with
other people.
Rose:
What do you mean, you don't want to
be bothered with other people ?
Chopin:
I want to do my own work in my own
way. And I want to provide you with experiences, tests and I want to
do various things.
Rose:
I
see.
Chopin:
And I cannot do that if I have got to concentrate on other
people. Later on, when the time is ready and I am in a position to
turn to you and say, 'Well, look we have done this, we have achieved
this together, we now are in a position to help to convince certain
people who can be of service or use.'
But it is no good at the moment
trying to please or to convince people who, in any case, either are
not ready for this or may not be in any position to talk or help in
any way. I think we must be patient, as I've told you. I know you've
got ideas and plans. I plant them in your head, true, but at the same
time there has got to be a proper time for these things.
Rose:
Yes.
Chopin:
You go back to Majorca again.
Rose:
Yes.
Chopin:
To build a bridge - this is, how
you say, metaphorical.
Rose:
Yes.
Chopin:
You build a bridge to make possible
certain things we shall do. There are certain people that you are
going to meet, as I've told you in the past. Certain friendships to
be forged and strengthened.
Rose:
Yes.
Chopin:
The professor is one. He is going
to be very important in your life.
Rose:
In
what way, Frédéric ? He's going to give me lessons, I know, you
said...
Chopin:
He's going to teach you. He is
going to help you with your music, of course. That is a little
pleasure that I want you to have and the friendship of the fellow.
But also, I want to work with him and use him a little more, himself,
you know.
Rose:
Yes, yes, yes...
Chopin:
There are certain people you see,
one must realise this, that there are Mediums in various directions.
There are Mediums I can use, like this one to speak to you and I hope
in other directions to use him. But there are also musicians, who I
can use from a musical point of view, who I can use as instruments
for their own good, of course. And also for you, to demonstrate to
you, to prove to you - not that you need the proof so much - but I've
got so many plans.
Rose:
Yes.
Chopin:
You
must remember that these things must be done in stages. They may take
a number of years. I say ten years. I make it ten years. That is what
I say. Maybe a little less, maybe more, but in ten years, which I
think you have to do - stay on Earth we can do a great deal. And I
want to leave behind a record through you, for the work, for those
who are intelligent enough and understanding enough. But I shall hope
to achieve certain things which in themselves will be so strikingly
evidential that no-one, unless they are very, very difficult to
believe - to convince, must believe, you know.
Rose:
Yes.
Chopin:
I know what I'm doing, but don't
put me to too much difficulty until I am ready.
Rose:
No
I won't.
Chopin:
When I'm ready I'll tell you I'm
ready.
Rose:
Alright,
Frédéric, alright. I'm glad you've mentioned it and I won't.
Chopin:
That's why when you ask me so many
questions, I'm sometimes quite shy, how you say, of answering,
because I don't want you to run too quickly, when I know the best way
to achieve all these things is by the gradual process. We have time.
We have plenty of time. You have many years yet, ten years at least
to do a great deal.
Maybe in six months, maybe in a year, maybe less
or more, I shall achieve certain things which I have set out to do.
But that is only the beginning, because not only one person, but many
persons are involved in this, you see. Not only you, not only the
Medium, not only the circle, as you call it, that sit here, but
people like the professor, people like Malcuzynski, people like
George Sand, all sorts of internationally world famous people.
Musical people are going to be brought into this, but to do that I
have got to be proficient, how you say, at communication. I've got to
be proficient in other directions, so that I can demonstrate in such
a way that a person like Malcuzynski, for instance, can never turn
round and say, 'That could not be Chopin.' I must be in a position to
give him 100% conviction.
Rose:
Yes.
Chopin:
You understand ?
Rose:
Yes.
Chopin:
It would be hopeless to prove
something like this to a man who is yet unready. And he will be more
ready perhaps in five years or less or more time, than he could
possibly be now. The same as the professor; we have to break down
barriers, we have to break down religious prejudices. We have many
things, even with your little friend who plays so nicely. She is
involved in this.
Rose:
She
is too ?
Chopin:
Today she is an ardent Catholic.
Rose:
Yes.
Chopin:
Tomorrow who knows ?
Rose:
Mmm.
Chopin:
You will see, you will see.
Rose:
What
is going to happen to her in life, Frédéric ?
Chopin:
In what way do you mean ?
Rose:
I
mean, she seems...Is she going to have any future or...?
Chopin:
Everyone has a future because there
is life after death.
Rose:
Yes,
I know.
Chopin:
And everyone has got a past - ooh
hoo !
Rose:
Yes.
I mean while she's on the Earth or is she going to carry on as she's
carrying on now ?
Chopin:
I don't see any changes in her
personal life.
Rose:
You
don't.
Chopin:
And I certainly do not think that
one can hope to expect it.
Rose:
No.
Chopin:
She has achieved all that she can
hope to achieve, unfortunately.
Rose:
Has
she ? Mmm.
Chopin:
But one must remember, that one can
be useful. One can be of great help in smaller ways and she has been
a great help to many people. She has been very kind and considerate.
She has neglected her own health to help other people. There is much
in her nature and character that I admire. And one must also bear in
mind that although one may not agree with her religion, her religion
has been a great help to her and has helped to bring out a lot of
good in her character. So we must never be prejudiced.
What I am prejudiced against and what so many people are prejudiced against is the narrow-mindedness of the teaching of the Church, which sometimes prevent a person from becoming a much better person. I don't only mean in character, but better person also in regard to their art also; in regard to the fullness that they could have in their lives.
Anyway, I don't want to go into that, but I just want you to know
that I have my plans and every one of my plans is a good plan and it
is not only something that I have devised myself. A great deal of
consultation and help has been given to me by others here. Some you
know. Some you don't know. We have many things that we want to
achieve, but only these things can be achieved if we are patient, one
with the other; that we work in complete harmony and co-operation and
that we do not attempt to do too much, too quickly. You will see, as
I have told you. Gradual process with me, development. Gradual, very
gradual, but it will be there and when the time comes for me to do
things where other people are concerned, I will do it. Already the
seeds have been sown in Majorca.
Rose:
Have
they ?
Chopin:
And when you return you will see
the result to some extent of the seed that is sown. Questions will be
asked. You'll become more intimate: more friendly. You'll meet new
friends, new faces. Links will be forged. This next visit is much
more important than the first. The first was important; the second is
vital.
Rose:
Oh.
Chopin:
Anyway I can tell you no more
today.
Rose:
Alright,
Frédéric. Well, we're thinking of going in the middle of May. Will
that be alright ?
Chopin:
That should be alright.
Rose:
Yes.
Chopin:
You go in the middle of...well,
whenever it is you can.
Rose:
Yes.
Chopin:
Don't make it too late in the
summer. Don't go in the height of the summer. Go when the island is
peaceful.
Rose:
Yes.
Chopin:
When the professor has more time.
Rose:
Oh
yes.
Chopin:
You
will see. You will see. Let him know that you are going.
Rose:
Yes. I will.
Chopin:
I
talk to you again if I can on Wednesday.
Rose:
Oh
yes please. Thank you very...
Chopin:
But... you will see. You will see.
I must go.
Rose:
Thank
you very much for all that you've told me.
Chopin:
...and don't puzzle your head too
much. Be content.
Rose:
(Laughs.)
Alright.
Mickey:
Bye bye Rosie.
Rose:
Bye
bye.
Mickey:
Bye bye.
Rose:
Bye bye, darling.
RECORDING ENDS