Recorded: July 7th 1955
Read the full transcript below, as you listen...
Present: Leslie
Flint, Rose Creet
Communicator: Frédéric Chopin
Part of this séance was personal to Mrs. Creet and only the
general and interesting remarks
made by Frédéric Chopin have been re-recorded for replay to the public.
Chopin:
Good afternoon.
Creet:
Good afternoon. Uh,
Frédéric? Is it you?
Chopin:
Hello. I do not know
if you can hear.
Creet:
I can hear, yes.
Chopin:
Good.
Creet:
I can hear now. I rung
up about a wonderful book of yours that's come out in Warsaw.
Chopin:
A book?
Creet:
A book.
Chopin:
My life again.
Creet:
Yes.
Chopin:
The different lives I
have led, uh?
Creet:
Oh, I don't know about
that. There are some photographs and things in there; full of
pictures.
Chopin:
Well it should be very interesting. Let us hope it is accurate.
But how can anyone write a person's life when they did not know the
person and were not with the person all the time. They get a few
facts together and then they string in with it a lot of things which
are not true.
Creet:
Yes, I know, but I realise that. I don't worry about what I read,
I...
Chopin:
I was difficult and temperamental.
Creet:
Yes.
Chopin:
Ah, but... for me there is only one thing really that matter very
seriously and that was my music.
Creet:
Uh, what?
Chopin:
My music was the only thing that really mattered to me.
Creet:
Yes.
Chopin:
I had moments, fleeting moments, of happiness.
Creet:
Yes.
Chopin:
And some of my best music was composed then. But I sometimes
think perhaps my best was composed when I was most unhappy. But it
was past remembrances that...
Creet:
Why were you so unhappy, Frédéric?
Chopin:
Oh because I knew that I could but not be...
Creet:
Do what?
Chopin:
I could not be (how you say)...Mmm...I could not live a normal
life. I could not find happiness. I knew that I could not live very
long.
Creet:
You knew that?
Chopin:
Oh, I knew but I would not say. I always knew that my health
would not make it possible for me to have a long life. I was always
feverishly writing - composing, you know.
Creet:
Yes...
Chopin:
I had so much I wanted to do and so little time in which to do
it. And there were many distractions and although I give the concert
it was chiefly because I need the money.
Creet:
Yes. Oh dear...
Chopin:
And then often I didn't receive what I work for, you know.
Creet:
No.
Chopin:
One has to have a patron.
Creet:
You didn't have one did...Oh yes, you had many, in Paris.
Chopin:
Oui but, uh...
Creet:
You
had Rothschild and you had Radziwiłł.
Chopin:
Yes I know but, uh, I say one have to have a patron because it
helped to sell one's music and helped to make possible, you
know...future, but, um...
Creet:
Anyhow, that's all over, Frédéric.
Chopin:
Uh, it is all over. I don't worry about it unless...
Creet:
You're happier now.
Chopin:
I talk about it because I know you are interested.
Creet:
What? Yes. It doesn't make you sad or anything, does it?
Chopin:
No. Why should it make me sad? That is finish.
Creet:
Well tell me about you now...
Chopin:
It is part of my
life...
Creet:
Yes.
Chopin:
...Important. Oh,
different. There is no need to concern now about anything. I have
complete and perfect control and I have everything that one could
wish for. And I am, in my own way, master of my own self and, um, I
have my own salon, how you say, but you...no. I have
big...um...place...
Creet:
You have?
Chopin:
...and many musicians
gather and we discuss music and oh, we compose and we play over
compositions one to the other; make comment, take advice sometimes
too from each other.
Creet:
Yes.
Chopin:
Not
so that it would interfere [with] one's own personal effort, but uh,
we do get new ideas. And we go together sometimes in groups to visit
various places and listen to music composed on different spheres.
It's a great revelation. For each sphere has its own music according
to its own condition and what would be right in one sphere would not
be right in another, for it would not be correct: it would not sound
right. But it is interesting, nevertheless.
Creet:
Oh, that must be very
interesting.
Chopin:
It is very
extraordinary how one cannot...one's own music, for instance, cannot
be heard even in certain spheres for it is beyond the comprehension
of the people inhabiting that condition. It is either above them,
beyond them completely - I don't know how to explain this...
For instance, certain of the music which I wanted to write on Earth which I was not able to do, one of the reasons why I used to become so impatient with myself was because my mind, within my mind, I could hear sounds which the normal ear could not hear and I tried to bring things out in the piano, but it was impossible. That is sometimes why my music is, perhaps, too difficult for many people. Not only did I feel and think differently as...more different to any other musician...there are no...none of my work or very little of my work is comparable to any other musician.
Creet:
It isn't.
Chopin:
It is completely different
as, in its...in its...um...?
Creet:
In its form and in
every way.
Chopin:
Oui. That it...it is
quite a different technique in execution which no-one, as far as I
know, before had ever tried. It is completely unique. Although I say
it myself, it is without any pride, you know...
Creet:
Yes and you brought
out...
Flint:
[Clears throat]
Creet:
...the use
of the pedals. You were the one, weren't you?
Chopin:
Well I used the pedals
perhaps more than anyone previously. I realised the importance of
pedals. The pedals, of course, on the early pianos were not quite the
same as they are in your piano today. And I had my own piano
altered... um...ah, how do I explain these things to you? I don't
know, um...also, you know, it is very important when you play my
music to get the correct tone; to have the piano open.
[sound
of traffic outside]
Creet:
Yes.
Chopin:
That does not perhaps
seem feasible to you.
Creet:
Oh yes, you mean right
open: the top open.
Chopin:
Yes. So.
Creet:
Yes.
Chopin:
You know, pianos as
you know vary the tone.
Creet:
Yes.
Chopin:
It
is very difficult sometimes even for great pianists on your side, who
were very experienced and good exponents, to get the correct tone on
the piano. That it why if a musician is very...uh...um...I can't find
words for this.
Creet:
It all depends, I
think, mostly on how they play with their fingers and the difference.
Now I'll tell you something: this Arthur Rubinstein who is supposed
to be a wonderful pianist. He is, but I've heard him playing your
Scherzos and the one in B flat; I don't know what he does to it. He
seems to use the pedal the whole time, it's all jumbled up and it's
much too fast. It's like a tornado. I don't like it at all.
Chopin:
Perhaps that is his
impression of my work, how it should be played. But I agree it is not
correct.
Creet:
Yes, Frédéric, but
your work has to be very, very clear, hasn't it?
Chopin:
Every note should be
clear.
Creet:
And that's where the...
Chopin:
And it's not good to
run the notes one into the other. Every note is individual.
Creet:
Well I think
that's...his pedalling is wrong there.
Chopin:
Could be his
pedalling. Perhaps it is a bad recording. I don't know. I am not so
interested in Rubinstein although I know he was, what you say, a very
great exponent; at least he was considered a great exponent of my
work and he was a good friend to me.
Creet:
Who?
Chopin:
But...uh...in as much
that he try and did certain things for me.
Creet:
Who was that, Frédéric?
Chopin:
I am talking about
since I pass over.
Creet:
Oh yes?
Chopin:
Since I pass over here,
his interest and love for my music. He execute it, you know, quite
well, sometimes. Especially in his earlier years.
Creet:
Are you talking
about...whom are you talking?
Chopin:
Rubinstein.
Creet:
Ah, not that
Rubinstein. That was Anton you mean?
Chopin:
So, so.
Creet:
Oh yes. Oh yes he was a
wonderful pianist, wasn't he?
Chopin:
Oui.
Creet:
Supposed to be.
Chopin:
You don't know, uh?
Creet:
I've never heard him.
Chopin:
Long time ago.
Creet:
Yes. This is Arthur.
Chopin:
I don't mean him.
Creet:
No.
Chopin:
Anyway, um, what shall we talk about?
Creet:
You've got so much to
tell me, I'm sure. I'm just listening with my ears wide open...
Do
you see anything of Liszt there Frédéric?
Chopin:
We are good friends.
Creet:
You are?
Chopin:
But he is no longer a
member of the Church.
Creet:
No. [Laughs]
Chopin:
And in consequence his
music is much better.
Creet:
Yes.
Chopin:
It is not so mournful.
Creet:
Very dramatic and full
of...
Chopin:
He was a very wonderful
person. He still is a wonderful person...
Creet:
Is he?
Chopin:
...but his music has
grown. It is not so confined as it used to be. At least I used to
think it was confined, you know. Perhaps I was prejudiced. I don't
think so. I don't know. But Mendelssohn is a very great friend also
of mine.
Creet:
Mmm?
Chopin:
Mendelssohn.
Creet:
Oh yes.
Chopin:
He is a very great
friend of mine.
Creet:
Ah, he used to come to
me a lot, you know, at one time.
Chopin:
I am not surprised. He
make path...the way for me, how you say?
Creet:
Yes, he did.
Chopin:
I sent him, although I
was with you in a sense. I had been in contact with you for many,
many years. But uh, well, he was more able to make the contact in the
first instance. It was he who opened the door for me.
Creet:
Yes.
Chopin:
If you go through your
notes: you'll find that it is so.
[Break
in the recording]
Creet:
...in many of the books
that I've read they say that you were the complete master.
Nobody...nobody was able to touch you in compositions or in
execution.
Chopin:
I was the master but
the piano was never the mistress.
Creet:
Well, I get so excited
when I read all those bits. [Laughs]
Chopin:
I know...but I'm going
to make of you an excellent pianist...
Creet:
I...oh, Frédéric, I...
Chopin:
...and you are going
to execute my work and what is more important, you're going to
execute my new works.
Creet:
I am?
Chopin:
When you come here.
Creet:
Oh, when I come there.
Chopin:
Oui. Oh, what you
think? You're going to do it on your side?
Creet:
Oh...
Chopin:
No
my child, it is not possible.
Creet:
No.
Chopin:
But uh, many things
are possible...
Creet:
I'm afraid...
Chopin:
Even now you say to
yourself, 'ah, I am finished' you know. But I say to you, 'no,
it is not so. You are only just beginning'.
Creet:
I expect you'll be very
strict with me, won't you?
Chopin:
No, I'm not strict
because nothing can be obtained of worthwhile if there is too much
strictness. One must use always kindness and sympathy. After all, it
is your great passion and your desire to be able to play music - my
music - and if I could not achieve it by love then any other way
would be hopeless. These children who are taught so strict and made
to do things; they may become good technicians but they have no soul,
for it must come from within. Without it there can be no progress.
Creet:
That is exactly as you
were when you were on the Earth with your pupils.
Chopin:
I know. Always one
must be kind and if the inclination and love and desire for it is not
there, then I would not bother with them.
Creet:
That's right. Yes,
that's right.
Chopin:
Many a pupil I would
turn away and say to the parent, 'No, I would not have you waste
your money, as much as I may need it. You take your child. Let him
become a painter or something but not a musician. His heart is not in
it.'
Creet:
Yes, that's quite
right....Mmm.
Chopin:
'Mmm' ? Why you
say 'Mmm' like that?
Creet:
Oh, I love getting
these proofs, Frédéric.
Chopin:
They are the proofs, I
suppose, in a way. They are proofs. That's why I'm so anxious, you
know, that you not let this medium go away, you know, and not to know
nothing about us...me...you know.
Creet:
No, he doesn't...uh...
Chopin:
He is ignorant, thank
God.
Creet:
What?
Flint:
[Laughs]
Creet:
He's what?
Chopin:
Ignorant.
Creet:
Yes. He doesn't know
anything about you, really.
Chopin:
How nice it is
sometimes to get someone who is so ignorant.
Creet:
[Laughing] Yes,
but he's very sweet, you know.
Chopin:
Of course he's very
sweet but then, I don't want him to know nothing about music,
especially my music.
Creet:
No. He doesn't. He
doesn't know anything at all.
Chopin:
And when he go to
Majorca that will be a little revelation for him...
Creet:
It
will be.
Chopin:
...and I think he will come back with
greater enthusiasm and interest in our little group sitting, you
know, our little work here together.
Creet:
Oh...
Chopin:
It's something I can't
talk about. It is something that I hope and must...will happen in its
own way. I only wished you were going with him to share it. But next
year I hope you have special opportunities. But, uh, huh, all these
things, they will come. But we must go step by step. It is like
building up a great symphony. Every little bit, you know, is
important and every part help to create the whole. But you come and
speak to me again when? Tuesday, Monday is it you come? Monday?
Creet:
Eh? Monday.
Chopin:
Good.
Creet:
Will you come?
Chopin:
So. Of course, I would
not desert you. If I could not come it would not be my fault.
Creet:
Yes.
Chopin:
But I shall come. I
must go. Au revoir.
Creet:
Alright. Thank you very
much.
RECORDING ENDS
This transcript was created by
a good friend of the Leslie Flint Educational Trust, Mr Simon
Lovelock.
Grateful thanks also go to Joëlle Cerfoglia.