The Leslie Flint Educational Trust

WEB: www.leslieflint.com                  EMAIL: leslieflinttrust@outlook.com

 
 

Spirit portrait of Annie Nanji
Drawn in 1970 by UK Medium Coral Polge

Annie Nanji séance

Recorded: Saturday November 21st 1981

Between 1970 and 1984, retired doctor of chemistry, Dr Dinshaw R. Nanji
of Birmingham University, 
visited Leslie Flint twice a year for private sittings, 
travelling from his home in Gothenburg, Sweden.

At almost every sitting  he was able to communicate directly with his wife Annie Ottilia Nanji, who had died in 1966.

In this recording,
Mickey and Dino discuss the fact that Mr. Flint forgot to record 
the previous séance on November 19th.


Annie talks of her work with spirit children
and explains that 'everything in our world is as solid and as real to us
as your world is to you'.


She talks of their own spirit children, Peter and Sybilla, and tells Dino,
'...I am waiting for you when the time comes.'



Religion and politics together are doing such terrible harm in your world.”

                                                                                                                          - Annie Nanji

Note: Although this 40 year old recording is very clear, it is not to modern standards.

 
 

Read the full transcript below, as you listen...



Present
: Leslie Flint, Dr Dinshaw Nanji

Communicators: Mickey, Annie Nanji




Flint:

This séance was recorded on the 21st of November 1981, medium Leslie Flint.


Mickey:
What are you doing here?


Flint:

Hmm?


Mickey:

What...today?


Dino:

Talk loudly!


Flint:

“What are you doing here today?” he said.


Dino:

You see love, last sitting, ah, ah, Leslie forgot to press the button to record it, you see, and it was not recorded.


Mickey:
Oh, dear.


Dino:

You see? And so…


Mickey:

You should, er, had to remind him.


Dino:

[Laughs] That was alright. The first one was alright.


Mickey:

But, em…anyway, em, you know, em, anyway, em, your wife, um, Annie, she’s always around you, so that’s alright.


Dino:

Yes.


Mickey:

So, she obviously knows. And she is obviously around you much more perhaps than you know.


Dino:

Uh-huh.


Mickey:

She comes to see you everyday, and of course, she came and she knows, um, the situation, you know, and so she’s turned up of course.


Dino:

Yes.


Mickey:

Oh, well! Can you hear me?


Dino:

All right.


Flint:

Yes, we can hear you. You’re a bit faint.


Dino:

He always is when he first comes. And he thinks he’s talking loud.


Mickey:

Well, it’s very difficult to know…


Dino:

[Laughs]


Mickey:

…exactly whether one is re-registering properly…but you can hear me?


Dino:

Yes! Now it is your real voice.


Mickey:

Oh is it? Only, uh, it’s not always easy at first, to be sure, but as long as I know how to pitch it, as you call it, you know, get my voice through proper, ah, then it’s all right once I can get on that level.


Dino:

[Laughs]


Mickey:

And how are you?

Dino:

Yes. I’m very well, thank you, dear.


Mickey:

You going home tomorrow?


Dino:

Yes, yes I’m going home tomorrow.


[Pause]


Flint:
[Coughs]

Mickey:

I, I, I came to see you when you went to see Jimmy...*


Dino:

Oh, did you?


Mickey:

And Elsie. Yes.


Dino:

Yes, that’s right! You ought to have seen my face when, uh, we tried to play the tape and there was nothing on it, you see!


Mickey:

Yeah.


Dino:

Ha ha!


Mickey:
And, em…one of them things, ain’t it? Because, you see, he forgets sometimes...


Dino:

Yes, that’s right.


Mickey:

…I think, to do the job, you know, press the button.


Dino:

Yeah.


Mickey:

You have to tell him, you see…


Dino:

Yes, I do. I do.


Mickey:

…he, he’s not always there.


Flint:

“Not always there”? What do you mean, “not always there”?


Dino:

[Laughs]


Mickey:

Well, you know what I mean…


Flint:

I don’t really know what you mean...


Dino:

Yeah...


Annie:

Hello darling!


Dino:

Yes darling…uh…this is a surprise for you?


Annie:

Well, not exactly…well, I would not call it a surprise.


Dino:

No.


Annie:

No. I because I was very aware of it, you know, when you was with Jimmy…


Dino:

Yes, yes…


Annie:

…and Elsie…


Dino:

Yes.


Annie:

...and you put this thing on the machine, you know? And, uh, you were so upset about it...


Dino:

Yes I was. I couldn't sleep...


Annie:

And I felt terrible, you know? And I thought, 'What are you going to do?'


Dino:

I couldn’t sleep that night.


Annie:

I know. But anyway, I am here today!


Dino:

Oh, thank you very much darling.


Annie:

So I have to try to remember…


Dino:

Yes, I know...


Annie:

..and repeat, uh?


Dino:

Yes, yes, that’s right darling.


Annie:

Ah! But what shall we talk about? What do you want to talk about?


Dino:

You know, you were telling me about your children.


Annie:

Ah, you mean, I am like, uh, a teacher, you know?


Dino:

Yes, that’s right!


Annie:

I am like a teacher…


Dino:

No, but, uh…are they living with you or they are in a...?


Annie:

No, no, no. They don't exactly live with me…you know, there are, what we call here, I suppose the only way…


Dino:

A community centre?


Annie:

A community centre, where there are many, many, many children, uh, who come and who need help and guidance, you know? And attention. Because their parents are still on Earth, in most cases. And also, they are in need of instruction, and, uh, they are helped to become as it were, um, settled here, you know?


Dino:

Yes.


Annie:

And, uh, when the children are together, that is a good thing because they have companionship, and friendship and it is like, in a way, a kind of school...uh, like a boarding school, perhaps you could call it, you know?


Dino:

Yes. Yeah, yeah.


Annie:

And, uh, I go there and I help with the children. And, um, sometimes I am able to take on a special child, you know, who perhaps, uh, I can do something with, uh, perhaps better than someone else.


Dino:

Yes.


Annie:

Of course, you know, it is very interesting, because there are all manner and kind of people here, who do what we call social, or what you would call social work, you know? And, uh, there are always children of different nationalities, you know, that come here and, uh, their parents are presumably, in most cases, still on Earth.


Dino:

Yes.


Annie:

And the children are lost, in a way...


Dino:

And how long are they with you?


Annie:

Well, it is very difficult to put time, but, um, it will depend. Sometimes, they are put in care of perhaps two people on this side who, when on Earth, were very close to each other, very fond of each other, very much in love with each other and did not have a child…


Dino:

Yah…


Annie:

…and have always longed for a child. And over here, you see, we...we see things very differently, I suppose. But it gives them the opportunity to adopt a child and to take care of a child, and help the child and educate the child, you see?


Dino:

Yes, yes…


Annie:

And, em, it becomes part of their lives, for a time. But you see, I wish I knew how to explain this because time is not with us, as it is with you.


Dino:

No…


Annie:

But children grow.


Dino:

Yes.


Annie:

They don’t remain children, anymore than, for instance, a person might come over here at 80 years of age and they are old and infirm, when on your side, you know?


Dino:

Yes.


Annie:

But they don’t stay the same. They go back to their prime of life, their youth. You see, age is an illusion because although the body grows old in your world, it, it’s not the body, it is the spirit that is important.


Dino:

Yes.


Annie:

The spiritual body is eternally young. And if a child comes here, and they have not matured in a material sense, uh, perhaps even, of course, obviously, in a mental sense, then they are given the opportunity here to expand their vision, to expand their experience, and they will outwardly, gradually obtain maturity, you know?


Dino:

Yes.


Annie:

And, um, it is an interesting work because, you know, uh, it’s very difficult to explain, because some of these children are old souls.

Dino:

Old souls? Yes…


Annie:

You know what I mean?


Dino:

I know…


Annie:

And eh…


Dino:

...and they understand.


Annie:

...they were not able to fulfil their material development, when on Earth in their last incarnation. And, uh, possibly that incarnation was intended to be something rather important or special.


Dino:

Yeah.


Annie:

They had to go through or should have gone through certain experiences, which were necessary and essential for their evolution so that they do not have to return to a material existence again.


Dino:

You see, our Sybilla and Peter must have gone through the same...


Annie:

Well, they, they were a…in a way that is true, uh, but they have a different, um, aspect, or rather...how do I say? You know, they...they had no Earthly life as we understand it…


Dino:

Yes.


Annie:

...you know...


Dino:

Yes.

Annie:

…in their last incarnation, you know. And, uh, they have grown and expanded their vision and experience. They are our children...


Dino:

Yes.


Annie:

...but what we have to remember is; when we talk about ourselves and when we talk about our children, we are looking at it, really, perhaps without realising it, in a sense, on a material level.


Dino:

That’s right.


Annie:

What I am trying to explain here is; that we have to learn when we come here, that we are all part of each other.


Dino:

Yes.


Annie:

We are all sharing the same experience, you know?


Dino:

Yes, yes, yes.


Annie:

But we are expressing that spirit, uh, in different evolutions of time, of conditions of life in...whether it is in a material sense or whether it is in a sense spiritual. What I mean is, that we enter into a body on Earth and that body is the house which we will express many aspects of our real selves. We are expressing the spirit and we are evolving and developing our personality. But you know, our personality, uh, it can be divided, if you like, into many sections.

You know, you have to gain experience, not only, um, obviously on Earth, in different incarnations through different bodies and different experiences. But you also have to gain it here. When you are released from the physical body, then you are, to some extent, opening up your vision and your experience in other directions. Here there is tremendous scope, you know?


Dino:

Yes.


Annie:

And...and when we talk about two people like, if you like, adopting a child here, uh, they are, as it were, not only helping that child to expand its vision and experience and evolve, but they are also gaining from this.


Dino:

Oh, yes.


Annie:

They are taking something from the child too. They are opening up doors, which, perhaps, previously were shut to them. You see, you cannot become a fully evolved or developed soul until you have experienced all manner and kind of things. We have to learn from our mistakes, for instance.


Dino:

Yes.


Annie:

On Earth, during an incarnation, you have free will. You have the opportunity to develop in whatever direction it may be. But you are bound to be affected by the thoughts and the actions of other people.


Dino:

Because I remember, when Sybilla and Peter were there, uh, I heard that they had completed their, uh, evolution and that was why they were not allowed to be born.


Annie:

Yes, that is true, but the point is, that I think one has to see that everything works in cycles, you know? I don’t think there is really, in a sense, a beginning or an end. We go round and round and round. And all the time we are progressing, gradually, to a certain point of achievement. I mean, the children were also old souls...


Dino:

Yes.


Annie:

...uh, but it was not possible, through circumstances beyond our control, to be born in a material sense.


Dino:

That’s right.


Annie:

But, they can also sometimes, not in every case, they can evolve here without that physical or material evol...evolution and progress, you know, they have to learn.


Dino:

And you deal with the children mentally...mentally?


Flint:
[Coughing]


Dino:

You don’t talk to them, do you?


Annie:

Well, you see everything here is a mental nature. You don’t have to talk to people.


Dino:

No, no. Because...


Annie:

Because it’s not necessary.

Dino:

No.


Annie:

Everyone here can communicate, one with another, by the power of their thoughts.


Dino:

Yes.


Annie:

Ah, it is an extraordinary thing, you know. Because what I think people don’t understand, or find it difficult to understand...that everything in our world is as solid and as real to us as your world is to you, because we are in harmony with it. We are vibrating at the same rate or level of consciousness and awareness and our bodies are, in consequence, as real to us as yours are to you. And we will evolve and we will develop, not only mentally, but also in regard to our appearance.


Dino:

And you told me they were all about 19 or 20...


Annie:

Well, I think it is true...


Dino:

Huh?


Annie:

Yes. But there again, you know, it is important to know that everything is a state of mind.


Dino:

Yes.


Annie:

Now if a person clings, as some people do, to memories of the old self, when on Earth, then they will to all outward appearances, temporarily, look like that. I mean, if a person, uh, comes here at 80, and they were old and infirm, and they cling - mentally cling - to the memory of that self, for a time they may well appear like that...


Dino:

Yeah, I see...


Annie:
...until they change their outlook and their attitude. You see, we can never be, any of us, can ever be any different to what we are deep down within our innermost selves. You see, here, for the very first time, possibly, I think this is true, you...you cannot be anything other than what you are to outward appearances.


Now on Earth a person can, uhhh, give a false impression of what they are really like inside. They can, uh, have a good exterior in a physical sense, and they can be very careful not to say anything or do anything to upset or offend anyone. But, uh, yet they may be thinking quite different. They may be very charming on the surface, but underneath they may be very unpleasant, you know?


Dino:

Yes, yes.


Annie:

And you often get people who give the impression on your side, that, 'oh what a nice person he or she is' and yet really, within themselves, they are the opposite.


Dino:

Yes.


Annie:

Here you cannot have a false façade.


Dino:

No.


Annie:

You cannot deceive yourself, neither can you deceive anyone else. Here, for the very first time, you face the reality of life, the reality of self and you cannot therefore, uh, go forward until you begin to reassess yourself and begin to change yourself and then gradually the worser part of self falls away, and all the things that you have held strongly in your mind about yourself; mentally, physically or whatever, begins to change.

That is why some people, when they first come here, they...they cannot adjust. They cling to the Earth. And because their memories are closely associated with material things, they remain, to some extent, material. And that is why you sometimes have Earthbound people.


Dino:

Yes, that was like your mother, for instance, uh, she was, uh...


Annie:

Well we had problems with her.


Dino:

Yes.


Annie:

She was very difficult, you know?


Dino:

Yes, I heard this.


Annie:

But, not only was she difficult on your side of life, but she was difficult here too. And it was quite a time before...able to get her to release herself from the old way of thinking.


Dino:

Yes.


Annie:

The only way that anyone can make a development or...or become more spiritually aware and conscious, and find peace and tranquility and happiness is…cannot happen until they begin to change. No one can do it for them.

Dino:

No.


Annie:

You know, this old idea of religion, about being saved…no one can do it for you. You must do it of your own accord, by your own effort.


Dino:

Yes.


Annie:

Someone may point the way. It may be like some great teacher or philosopher, or someone who has great spiritual realisation, who, when on your side, acts in the capacity of, of, of a great teacher, but the point is, that it depends on you.


Dino:

Yes.


Annie:

I can tell you certain things, but I cannot make you do them. You have your freedom to choose and to make up your own mind and try to follow out what it is that one might be able to tell you. But you have to do it; I can’t do it for you.


Dino:

No. Does Sybilla share with you this work?


Annie:

Oh! She is very active. But, you know, she is very funny too. [Laughing] You know, I don’t know. It's very difficult to explain things. She...she has a very special gift.


Dino:

Yeah?


Annie:

I think she has, partly, this gift because she has, what I suppose one would say, is a wonderful sense of humour.


Dino:

Ah-ha...


Annie:

Do you know what I mean?


Dino:

Yes, yes.


Annie:

Uh, she will see, uh...


Dino:

The funny side...


Annie:

...the funny side of people or the funny side of situations...


Dino:

Oh, that’s very interesting!


Annie:

…and she seems be able to help certain people much better than others.


Dino:

Yes.


Annie:

Now there are some people who are not like that, and they work in a different way and do wonderful work too.


Dino:

Hmm…


Annie:

But, you know, she has an extraordinary sense of humour. She likes people, of course, but she also finds people who are, what you and I might call, uh, people we wouldn’t want to associate with, you know?

Dino:

Ah-ha! [Laughing]

Annie:

You know what I mean? Not that we wouldn’t want to help anyone, but she goes out of her way to work with certain types of people who really, quite frankly, are not very nice people. [Laughing]


Dino:

It's like your own affinity?

Annie:

Yes. She works in a strange way, to me, I think. But she will find people who are very near the Earth who cannot release themselves, for various reasons. And she will talk to them and she will almost, temporarily, enter into their state of mind, you know? And she will treat them...and sometimes she will, not exactly make fun of them, but she will make them see aspects of themselves which they did not know or didn’t realise or expect was in their nature before.

She...she...I have seen her do some extraordinary things, and I have sometimes thought well, I don’t know, I could not do that. But she is much more outgoing; you know what I mean by outgoing, uh, than some people?


Dino:

Yes.


Annie:

Now I suppose you would’ve called me, when on Earth, reserved.


Dino:

Reserved.


Annie:

You know?


Dino:

Yes.


Annie:

Uh, not that I was not inclined to always try to be good friends with people, but she would go out of her way much more than I would have done, you know? She will, um, make the jokes and, uh, pull the leg, you know?


Dino:

Yes, that’s right.


Annie:

And tease. And she will get in with a person, in a sort of way, which I probably couldn’t do, you know?


Dino:

Yeah.


Annie:

[Laughing] Uh, she will lower herself, temporarily, on their level, uh, so she can get closer to them. I would think, in most cases, find that very difficult. I mean, I love being with the children because…I tell you why; I think, in a way, the children - because they are more immature, they have not expanded very much in the material sense, their vision or experience, and I find them much easier.

Perhaps you could say I take the easy way out. [Laughing] I don’t know, but...but, uh, she chooses the difficult ones, you know? Which, um, frankly...


Dino:

Yes. Well that's good.


Annie:

Yes, I know, it is very good. [Laughing] And I am amused with her sometimes. And then, of course, sometimes we rest and we relax, away from our work, and we come together as a family. And we, um, enjoy various things. We go to concerts.


Dino:

And you all live in the same house as before?


Annie:

Yes, but, um, oh it’s difficult to explain...


Dino:

I...I get beautiful visions of that house, uh, ah, very often in my sleep, uh, and uh, I thought to myself after you spoke to me...


Annie:

Well, sometimes you come over during your sleep. And sometimes, uh, we are in the garden, you know?


Dino:

Yes.


Annie:

And there are some beautiful trees.


Dino:

Yes.


Annie:

And, uh, I think one or twice you have had remembrance of these things, uh?


Dino:

Yes, yes.


Annie:

I love the flowers. And there are such a profusion of flowers. And birds!


Dino:

Yes, yes.


Annie:

You know, some people don’t know.


Dino:

No.


Annie:

They think, uh, 'how can there be birds' and 'how can there be butterflies'?


Dino:

There are birds and fishes also?


Annie:

But these are realities to us, because they are part of life. They are part of the beautiful aspects of life. And we have birds, and trees and flowers. And...and...and we have, uh, all manner and kind of animals. But all the animals are at different levels of evolution, I suppose, really. But...but they are friendly, there is no, uh...I don’t know how to explain this - whether it is with our way of life and our lives in general or, or with the animals or what have you, the cats or the pet cat and dogs...uh, there is a wonderful, um, feeling of unity, you know?

You see, this is the tragedy of your world. I mean when we try to come down to your world it is like trying to pierce a deep fog.


Dino:

Full of peril.

Annie:

Uh! It is...I don’t know. I don’t want to give a bad impression, because if it were not for you, I would not want to come back to your world.


Dino:

No, naturally.


Annie:

The only reason that I come, is because of my love and affection for you. And because, I want, if I can, help as best I can, the remaining years you have, that to realise we are closer and closer together. But the world itself, uh! It is terrible. There is no real understanding among people. There is so much hatred and malice and ill will. And...and hatred is terrible, you know?


Dino:

Yeah.

Annie:

If only you could realise the beauty and the loveliness of our world, you would understand why, in a way, it is almost a sacrifice for us to come down to your world.


Dino:

Darling, do you know that, during this visit, I had a big surprise that there is a film on the TV.***


Annie:

Ah! I know what you are going to talk about.


Dino:

[Laughing]


Annie:

You're going to talk about us and the...years ago, uh, the Borgia.


Dino:

Yes.


Annie:

...and... Lucrezia and all that.


Dino:

Yeah.


Annie:

Uh! That is a long time ago and I don’t particularly want to remember it.


Dino:

Ten instalments.


Annie:

I know, but I don’t want to talk about that...


Dino:

And it is all about Lucrezia.


Annie:

Yes I know, but it is something that was necessary, I suppose. It was a part of karma that one had to experience. But I would much rather think of the better and the happier things.


Dino:

But, uh, there are ten instalments and I...I...


Annie:

Oh, thank goodness, you have changed!


Dino:

[Laughing]


Annie:

Because you were wicked.

Dino:

Beg pardon?


Annie:

[Laughing] You have changed, thank goodness, because those days were very wicked.


Dino:

Yes.


Annie:

But, of course, things were very different. It is very difficult to explain. We were all products of the age and the condition and circumstances in which we once lived, you know?


Dino:

Yes.


Annie:

We cannot escape from that. You see, what...what it’s all about is, we become what we become...


Dino:

Hmm…


Annie:

...not only by our own thinking and actions, but the circumstances of that particular era in which we were born.


Dino:

Yes.


Annie:

I’m not making excuses…


Dino:

No…


Annie:

I think one, of course, has to remember and realise, that even in the most terrible circumstances of time, there were remarkable people who were so good. And eventually, of course, most of them were underfoot; they were trodden into the dust, you know? Uh...oh, I could tell you many things about many aspects of life.


Dino:

I...I’m going to write to Swedish television to bring that, uh, to Sweden, so I can see the whole lot.


Annie:

Oh, you mean the...the film, uh, whatever...television.


Dino:

It’s a very beautiful film.


Annie:

Uh-huh...


Dino:

Oh, yes.

Annie:

Oh, dear, I don’t know what…[Laughs]


Dino:

[Laughs]


Annie:

I don’t know that I particularly want it to...


Dino:

No, it’s of special interest to me.


Annie:

I know but it, um, it reawakens all manner of things that are best forgotten.


Dino:

But, mind you, darling do you know, that as you are now, you’re more like Lucrezia was, than, uh, you were in your last incarnation.


Annie:

Ah, you worry me. You mean, uh...you mean…how do you mean? I am not like her now!


Dino::

I have seen Lucrezia’s, uh, pictures and, uh, what Coral Polge** drew of you.

Annie:

Ah, yes, alright, but...


Dino:

And there is a great similarity.


Annie:

But...but my dear, I am [a] very different person!


Dino:

Ah, yes...


Annie:

I have made much progress!

Dino:

Yes, yes, yes, yes.

Annie:

I have no badness in me anymore!


Dino:

I know! I only talk of appearances.


Annie:

And I was, oh… I don’t know why you want to talk about Lucrezia.


Dino:

No, well I saw this and I thought, well, I must tell you. That it's very interesting.


Annie:

You are different. We all grow and expand in our vision and our experience. And the worser part of self is forgotten. At least I think we should try to forget it. I don’t know. Perhaps we don’t ever really forget. But the point is that, ah, well, you know, it is a long time ago in [unintelligible] and it is part of our lives, our experience. But, uh, we have progressed, far removed from all that.


Dino:

Yes of course. Yes.


Annie:

Why do you want to talk about Lucrezia?


Dino:

Yes.


Annie:

Ah!


Dino:

[Laughs]


Annie:

Let’s talk about charming, nice, beautiful things.


Dino:

Now, you won't forget about that book.

Annie:

No. Of course I will not forget about it. I don’t know what title, you know. Uh, so many ways in which…


Dino:

You know, inspiration will come to you.


Annie:

Well, perhaps it will come to you.


Dino:

Yes. Inspiration will come to you, and uh...


Annie:

There have been so many books.


Dino:

Uh...it’s nice to know from your side.


Annie:

When are you going home? Tomorrow?


Dino:

Tomorrow morning, darling.


Annie:

Ah, well I will be with you on that plane.


Dino:

Yes. Thank you very much. It will be very interesting. But, uh...


Annie:

Who was the woman beside you?


Dino:

Uh, where you mean?


[Pause]


Annie:

I don’t know.


Dino:

Where do you mean, this woman?


Annie:

Uh, the...the flight.


Dino:

Hmm?


Annie:

The plane.


Dino:

In the plane? Oh...I don’t know who it can be?


Annie:

Never mind. It’s not important.


Dino:

No.


Annie:

There is only one woman for you: me!


Dino:

Yes, of course. [Laughing] You don’t have to tell me that.


Annie:

And we have been together many, many times.


Dino:

Yes, yes.


Annie:

And when you come here, that will be the end of our material lives.


Dino:

I...I think this book is going to be a great sensation, when it is really finished.


Annie:

I feel sure it could be.


Dino:

Yes.


Annie:

But I do hope that man will do it, you know?


Dino:

Yes.


Annie:

I mean...I think…well, I don’t know. You think he will do it?


Dino:

Oh yes, uh...


Annie:

I will have to try and get on and impress him.


Dino:

Yes.


Annie:

Are you seeing him again, now?


Dino:

Uh…


Annie:

Not till next time.


Dino:

Not this time, no.


Annie:

That will not be until the summer?


Dino:

Until summer, yes.


Annie:

Uh, it's a long time!


Dino:

I come in June now.

Annie:

Why...why so long?


Dino:

I will come in June now.


Annie:

But why so long?


Dino:

Because Leslie is going away to California, darling.


Annie:

What? All through the summer?


Dino:

Yes. Well, he is leaving in February and coming back in May.


Annie:

Oh...


Dino:

You see?


Annie:

Well, alright. But I can...of course, you see it is different in a way for me, because I can come and see you anytime.


Dino:

Yes, of course.


Annie:

But, uh, it will be a long time before we can talk. It will be nearly half a year.


Dino:

Yes, of course. But, uh, you see, Leslie gets the little benefit and strength from the change.


Annie:

Well, yes, I think that is a good thing.


Dino:

Yes...


Annie:

I think we have to remember and realise that we are very blessed, you know...


Dino:

Of course we are...


Annie:

...being able to talk to each other.


Dino:

Oh yes. I...I know that.


Annie:

And of course, he is not getting younger.


Dino:

No, that’s true.


Annie:

And, of course, he’s getting fatter!


Flint:

Oh, dear!

Dino:
Well I...


Annie:

Well, I didn’t mean that to be rude.


Dino:

No.


Annie:

But I mean it is a pity, because I think, from what I have heard said, you know…

Dino:

Yeah, yeah...

Annie:

…that his health is, well, not too bad, you know? But I think he should get rid of the weight, because it is a strain on the heart, uh?


Dino:

Yes. That’s right.


Annie:

And, uh, it’s not for me to tell him what to do, but I would have thought, you know, it would be easier, better, if he could lose weight, uh?


Dino:

Yes.


Annie:

But, in any case, it is only right that he should have rest and quiet and…


Dino:

Yes.


Annie:

After all, you know, I suppose it takes a lot from him…


Dino:

Yes.


Annie:

Ah, being able to speak is wonderful, but we must not be selfish.


Dino:

Yes.


Annie:

Oh, I don’t know! I’m so pleased you came today! I had a horrible feeling you would be going home miserable.


Dino:

I had that same feeling.


Annie:

But we got it arranged, uh?


Dino:

Yes, that’s right.


Flint:
[Laughing] Oh dear!


Dino:

And how is my darling Peter?


Annie:

Peter is wonderful. He is very interested in so many things.


Dino:

Is he?


Annie:

He’s very interested in construction, do you know that?


Dino:

In what?


Annie:

Construction.


Dino:

Construction.


Annie:

Oh yes, he has got an inventive mind. And, you know, you might think this a very strange thing to say, but he is very inventive, he’s very interested in science...


Dino:

Yes…


Annie:

...as you understand it - not as it applies to us. But, you know, he has been to various places on Earth where there are scientifically-minded people and he is trying to help. You see, there is a great concern in our world about the state of your world and about the atomic weapons...


Dino:

Yes.


Annie:

…and all the terrifying things that are happening.


Dino:

Yes.


Annie:

And he is very anxious and very interested in doing something that is of value to help mankind. And also, he is very interested in...in what you call healing, you know. The point is, there is so much yet to be discovered - like a cure for cancer, for instance, and, um, he’s interested in many aspects of things appertaining to scientific research. Because there are a lot of people here who when on Earth were scientists, you know, and they are still interested...


Dino:

Of course!


Annie:

...in science as such, what we term or you term, science. And he goes to what you would call an academy, I suppose. It’s not quite that, but...where people gather of like mind. And they talk and they discuss many things, appertaining...not only of course to the material, but also to the mental and spiritual side of things here.

Because you must remember, you know, that we don’t know all the answers. We don’t know all that we, perhaps, would like to know. The same as science researchers in your world, like going into outer space, for instance.


Dino:

Yes.


Annie:

Uh, we realise there are many worlds.


Dino:

[Laughing]


Annie:

Our world is not the only world, any more than your world is the only world.


Dino:

No, no...


Annie:

There are worlds, upon worlds, upon worlds and you enter into different states of being [depending on your evolution].


Dino:

And there are people living in these worlds?


Annie:

Oh, of course! And, although we don’t have death, as you understand it...


Dino:

Ah!


Annie:

…there is the realisation that when you have assimilated everything you can from a certain state of being in which you are here, then you go through a sleep-state and enter into a new world or a new aspect of life.


Dino:

I see…


Annie:

Ah, it’s extraordinary. I don’t know how to explain it. You see people think that, um, your world, or many people think, your world is the only world. Uh, and now science is, uh, sending men into the atmosphere and they go to the moon, uh, but that is only the beginning. It is, uh...I think that if your world continues, as we hope it will, and there is no atomic war, which is a great fear that we have...


Dino:

Yes.


Annie:

We’re trying desperately to prevent it. Now, a lot of people on this side are going into places where people, uh, who govern in your world, go into their homes and go into their places where they meet, uh, trying to influence them. It’s very difficult, because no one can make a person do anything, unless they want to do it. But what we want to do is to change the thoughts of man, whether it is in Russia, or whether it’s in the States of America, or in England or wherever.

You know, at the moment, you have tremendous upheaval going on, for instance, with untold numbers of people who are marching through the streets against the bomb, you know?


Dino:

Yes.


Annie:

And these are people that are being influenced, not only by their own desirings, but to some extent, influenced by people on this side. Because we know the only way that mankind will prevent a terrible disaster, is to get the people to make those in power stop doing what they are doing because they are playing all the time with dangerous things.


Dino:

Yes. You see now, atomic power and atomic weapons - they are the two curses of modern civilisation.


Annie:

Well of course, you see...but the point is, that we can see what you cannot see, to some extent, in your world. The more you amass all these bombs, the more you are, as it were, at the edge of the precipice, you know? It could happen anytime by accident, not necessarily by design.


Dino:

Yes…


Annie:

And, and uh, when you consider what it is costing nations, whereas they could be spending and using that money for good causes to help people...


Dino:

Yes, yes, I agree...


Annie:

...in, in regard to a house in which to live, and their health. You see, what we are trying desperately to do, is influence all manner and kind of people in all countries, to work towards a goal where peace will reign. And, and a lot of the atomic power could be used for the benefit of man and not for the destruction. I know it is almost impossible; because, in a way, we can influence people, it’s true. But we cannot make them do things.


Dino:

But you see, the trouble is, that every atomic power station throws out so much waste.


Annie:

Uh!


Dino:

It is radioactive.


Annie:

It is terrible!


Dino:

You see? And that is what is the danger to the world and the pollution it causes. And that is what is increasing the rate of cancer in the world, you see? And now in Sweden, last month, that one of the latest power stations, uh, they found that the tubes were leaking.


Annie:

Ah! It is terrible! And we are doing everything we can from this side of life to influence, to prevent this terrible thing that could happen. And you know, ah, it is something which is beyond, well, expression. I mean, we are very unhappy, very concerned, and one of the reasons, apart from the fact of wanting to be in touch with our loved ones...


Dino:

Yes.


Annie:

...we are concerned with the whole state of the world...


Dino:

Yes.


Annie:

...and all the people in it. And...and there is so much hatred and malice and intolerance. Why can’t people learn to live together in harmony and in love and in peace? But religion...unfortunately religion doesn’t help. Religion breeds barriers, it breeds hatred and intolerance...


Dino:

Yes, yes.


Annie:

I mean, so many things that are happening in your world can be put down to religion. Religion and politics together are doing such terrible harm in your world.


Dino:

Do you think that Russia will ever change, because Russia is Communist.


Annie:

I think Russia will change. And I think that Russia has a great fear, you know? I’m not taking sides, because I don’t think that I can or should. But I think that the Americans are as much to blame, if not more, uh, than the Russians.


Dino:

Yeah.


Annie:

I don’t think anyone wants war...


Dino:

No.


Annie:

…and yet all the time they are preparing. Although they say they are building up a protective barrier against another nation; deep down inside there is this terrible fear. And what worries us more perhaps, or as much as anything, is the possibility of something happening accidentally, which would set the whole world ablaze!


Dino:

Yes.


Annie:

Oh, I don’t know. I...still...well, I don’t want to talk too much about it. But in any case, you know, I...I have to go in a minute. But, but, but in any case your recording machine, is going to stop in a minute...


Dino:

Yes.


Annie:

And, uh, I don’t want you to lose anything.


Dino:

No.


Annie:

But, I just want you to know that the three of us here are with you constantly. You know, if one is not with you, another one is.


Dino:

Yes, thank you darling.


Annie:

You know? [Laughing] But I want you to be happy.


Dino:

Yes, I know that.


Annie:

That is very important to me.


Dino:
Yes, I know that.


Annie:

Don’t be distressed or upset. Be as happy as you can.


Dino:

Yes.


Annie:

And know that I am waiting for you, when the time comes.


Dino:

Give my love to Sybilla and to Peter...


Annie:

I will and I have to go. But a big kiss for you and wish I could put my arms around you. I do, although you don't perhaps realise it.


Dino:

Thank you darling.


Annie:

I love you. I have to go. And goodbye darling.


Dino:

Thank you.


Annie:

Goodbye.


Dino:

Goodbye darling.


Mickey:
She’s marvellous!


Dino:

Yes.


Mickey:

She was a good today as I’ve ever heard her.


Dino:

Yes.


Mickey:
But your machine’s running out in a few minutes…


Dino:

Yes.


Mickey:

…so I have to go now. My love and God bless you. Bye-bye!


Flint:

Goodbye, Love.


Dino:

Bye-bye.


Flint:

Huh! She was marvellous today!


Dino:

Oh, wasn’t she lovely?


Flint:
Absolutely marvellous! She really was.


Dino:

Yes.


Flint:
Now, I’ll wait.


Dino:

You’d think she had the whole world on her finger.

Flint:
Yeah...


END OF RECORDING




* Jimmy = Mickey is referring to Dr Nanji's visit to the home of Jim Ellis.

** Coral Polge was the spirit portrait artist responsible for drawing Annie, Sybilla and Peter Nanji.

*** Dr Nanji is referring to a ten-part BBC series called The Borgias, first broadcast on TV in October 1981.


This transcript was created for the Trust by Mary Beth Mank - December 2017