The Leslie Flint Educational Trust

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Still from the original TV broadcast, showing Betty Greene, George Woods, Leslie Flint and presenter, Eammon Andrews.

   Below, the TV Times
entry for the show's evening slot...
'Today' Show - TV Interview

Recorded: 1968

Recently discovered, this rare 15 minute audio is all that remains
of an early TV interview with Medium Leslie Flint.

It was originally broadcast on UK national TV in 1968
as part of the 'Today' TV chat show.
The show was created and hosted by veteran presenter
Eamonn Andrews and made by Thames Television.


This new show was advertised at the time as
'casting a quizzical eye on London' and in this episode
the host interviews Leslie Flint and researchers
George Woods and Betty Greene.


The recording is complete
and includes three edited seance clips,
as originally broadcast.

 

PLAY                                                                     VOLUME


P
lease read the transcript below as you listen...

 


Andrews:
Well now, your claims that you’ve recorded the voices of dead people, er, sounds fantastic and to some people, shocking. But before we go into what your claims are, let us listen, first of all, to Mr Woods recording of Oscar Wilde:

Wilde:
Oh you might as well know; my name is Wilde.
Greene:
Oscar Wilde ?
Woods:
Oh I’ve read your books…many of them, yes.
Greene:
Oh how lovely !
Greene:
Mr Wilde, can you tell us something of your life on the ‘other side’ now - and what you’re doing ?
Wilde:
Well I must admit, it’s a relief to be asked to discuss one’s life over here, in preference to one’s life when on Earth…more money has been made out of my reputation since my death, than ever I was able to make out of my plays - which goes to say, that sin is very successful !

Andrews:
Now, when was that recorded Mr Woods?

Woods:
That was recorded about, er, four or five years ago, it was.

Andrews:
Now what are the circumstances of this and all the recordings you make? How...how are they made - the recording of these voices you claim come from the ‘other side’?

Greene:
Well, there’s a very important point here, that the voice of the Spirit communicator does not come through the Medium. In other words, does not come through his mouth.

Andrews:
Mr Flint being the Medium?

Greene:
Mr Flint is the Medium - and everybody has this substance known as ectoplasm, which is a life force, and a Physical Medium has a great deal of the particular power. On the ‘other side’ they draw this power from the Medium, and they fashion a replica of the vocal organs, of which is known as the ‘voice-box’.

Andrews:
Is this something you see when you’re recording?

Greene:
No you can’t see it - if you took an infra-red photograph you would be able to see it. And also the sitters give off an amount of ectoplasm themselves, from which they also draw. And the Spirit communicators, they transmit their voice, via - or their thoughts I should say - via this voice-box, which reaches us as sound or the voice.

Andrews:
And where is your microphone Mr Woods, when you’re recording this?

Woods:
It’s about, er, four feet away from the Medium - say that you were sitting there, it would be about that distance from…you, you see?

Andrews:
And presumably Mr Flint, you have been accused of say, well you’re able to throw your voice from wherever you sit to that microphone?

Flint:
Ha! Well, for thirty-five years I’ve been a Medium and during that period of time I have sat for various people; psychical researchers and Spiritualists, of course, under all sorts of conditions, tests and otherwise. I have given demonstrations, many years ago now, in various halls, and we’ve had the 'Tannoy' system at that time, who installed the microphones and the speakers etc., and on one occasion, without our knowledge, they tested if it was possible for one of the men to sit in the cabinet, in which I was curtained off, heavily curtained off, and project a normal voice, his voice, into the microphone, which was three or four feet away - and they realised it was quite impossible.

For one thing, even assuming that they were able to get their voice through, the ordinary human voice, it was so muffled that you could never hear anything distinctly, er, which they publicly stated that it was quite physically impossible to do. So I have never, at any time, minded intelligent people investigating my Mediumship. In fact I have, as I’ve said, for many, many years offered myself to researchers. In fact I am even now, and have been for the last six months, sitting with some psychical researchers. And if we are successful, which I hope we shall be - and there are every indication to point out that we shall be successful - we shall scientifically prove that the voices themselves cannot possibly come from any human agency.

Andrews:
Well I don’t know how you will prove it - but let us take Oscar Wilde that we listened to. Well now he didn’t sound perhaps as witty or as satirical as one read of him in life. Did you get the impression that he’s not happy?

Woods:
Well you see, you haven’t heard the full tape. You ought to hear the full tape, then you would agree that he’s very cynical. He’s…he jokes with us and he says awful things, really rude to us. He’s very rude, all the way through.

Andrews:
Why do you think he came to talk to you in the first place?

Woods:
Well, he’s just, er, like other Spirits, they all want to come through and tell people they’re still alive. And they like to try to come through as they were, when they were on Earth.

Andrews:
But when you had this session and Oscar Wilde arrives, have you been asking for him or…?

Woods:
No, no…

Greene:
We don’t ask for anybody

Woods:
We never ask for anyone.

Flint:
It’s quite impossible. You see, that is a thing that is often said about Spiritualists - that we sit and we ‘call up the dead’ - which is the most stupid thing that anyone could possibly say or imagine. No one is capable, no one can possibly call up the dead. You can sit around ’til doomsday. If a person doesn’t want to come and communicate with you, you can’t make them come. There’s no power that you have in demanding that they shall come. In fact, I might sit for a number of people interested in the subject, I might sit many days in succession for the same people and nothing will happen at all. Then all of a sudden, so it seems, for no reason whatsoever, the very person that you most would like to come and speak, will speak - but no one can call up the dead.

Andrews:
Well let’s hear another recording. This, you claim, is the voice of actress Ellen Terry:

Terry:
On the sphere in which I now exist, there is such tremendous opportunity and there are great souls indeed, who have progressed from sphere to sphere and experienced experience. We have the most wonderful form of existence that one can hope to experience - and yet all the time one is experiencing this existence in life, one is ever conscious of the possibilities of that which still lies further ahead…

Andrews:
Have you ever heard a recording of the real voice, the life voice of Miss Terry?

Flint:
I have.

Andrews:
And how do you…how do the two compare?

Flint:
Well I don’t think there’s any comparison at all. I don’t think they sound alike. Er, one must remember that the record - I believe the only record in existence of Ellen Terry - was made quoting from Shakespeare, ‘The Quality of Mercy’, which was very, very long ago (pre-electric) and she was a very old lady of about eighty, I should imagine then.

So in any case, I don’t know how one can make comparisons, because after all, if a person is communicating in a normal way when they’re still in the body on this side of life, under normal conditions, then they’re not obviously having the same sort of effort and the difficulty and the complexities, in communicating from the other side of life. Er, and I don’t see, for the life of me, how you can possibly expect a voice of a person, attempting to communicate to us in this world, can be identical. For there are so many factors to be considered. They have to assert their personality.
I mean for instance, you said about Oscar Wilde not being particularly witty. It’s true you haven’t heard the whole tape, but the whole point is…

Andrews:
But on the quality - I mean, on the quality of the voice - the voices…

Flint:
Yes.

Andrews:
…whether they sound like the old voice, but they certainly sound human voices.

Flint:
Oh they are human voices, in as much that - well, after all said and done, the voice is human, in as much that the agency - and one must always remember this, and a lot of people don’t understand this - that no matter how sincere and intelligent the Medium may be, no matter how honest - somewhere, some part of that Medium must ‘get into’ the communication.
I defy anyone to suggest otherwise.

I’m a Medium of many, many years experience and I know only too well - although I myself am not conscious of having any influence whatsoever on the voices - obviously somewhere, because some part of myself is used in some strange way, which I can’t even explain - there must be some part, somewhere, of the Medium. You can’t completely cut out the Medium, how can you?


Andrews:
Mrs Greene, does it strike you as odd that most of the voices are historically famous? You know, why do you think that should be?

Greene:
Well I think they’ve come through like that because they have a bigger impact. You see, say we bought up a voice of one of own relatives, well that wouldn’t interest the public…

Andrews:
You mean you’re not doing this to interest the public?

Greene:
No. We’re doing it to bring…we are doing this to bring over - to try and help humanity learn that there is an Afterlife. That a lot of the awful things that are going on today is through man’s thought, man’s ways. And many, many people who have come through to us, they’ve given us talks on that. That the way people are living these days has caused all this havoc that is going on.

Andrews:
But I mean…don’t you…I mean most of the whole fundamental basis of Christianity is, that there is an Afterlife - without hearing voices from the Afterlife.

Greene:
Yes, but the Afterlife that the church preaches is rather a wishy-washy one. They don’t…they don’t preach a life, sort of, ‘going on’ - you’re going on from sphere to sphere, as it were. I mean when you go on, you’re creating all the time on this Earth as you are, you’re creating on the other side. And as you created on this Earth, so you will go to that creation on the other side, you see?

Andrews:
Well that’s what…I believe that anyway, that whatever you do, you’re storing up for the future - good or bad.

Greene:
However you think or whatever your attitude of mind is or however you think, so you are creating. And you have got to experience your own creation, whether on this side or perhaps wait ’til you get to the other side…

Flint:
Can I say…

Green:
…simple as that.

Flint:
…please? You made reference to the voices of famous people. I think it should be quite clearly stated, that for every famous personality that has endeavoured to contact us (communicate), hundreds of people, ordinary men and women, have come through and spoken to their respective relations…

Andrews:
Yes I know, but you were explaining that you don’t sit there - and no one can - call up a Spirit.

(Both talking)

Andrews:
One is curious why Ellen Terry drops down to Worthing…

Flint:
Well why shouldn’t she? Is there any reason why…is there only one law for one…and one law for one and not the other? And why shouldn’t a famous person come there as an ordinary person?

Andrews:
Well I mean in..in..in..to show the other side of course, we have a recording here of someone…

Flint:
Yes, yes.

Andrews:
…who’s not famous and that’s somebody called Jeremiah - a Roundhead and foot-soldier to Cromwell who died in battle - and this is what he had to say for himself when he came through:

Jeremiah:
I was killed in battle. I was a follower of Master Cromwell. I was a foot-soldier. I remember nothing more. Only after, I see myself on the ground. All around were bodies of our friends and our enemies, all together…

Andrews:
Now obviously Mr Flint, some of the people watching us now will be saying well, then that’s you changing your voice to ‘ye olde Englishe’ accent. What do you say them who say that?

Flint:
Well, what can I say? I mean, obviously there are people who, whatever is given to them - even if it’s a very personal experience with a Medium - they still say, ‘oh well, it could have been the Medium, it could have been ventriloquism.’  They will always have explanations of their own, because they prefer that, in many instances.

I mean, the whole point is, a person who wants conviction will only, obviously, find it, if he or she - as the case may be - makes a study of this, goes about it intelligently, doesn’t necessarily accept everything as gospel - I don’t. I’ve been thirty-five years as a professional Medium and I don’t necessarily, er, accept everything that I hear.


Andrews:
You don’t accept all their own identifications?

Flint:
No. I…I accept because…can we put it this way; after thirty-five years of sitting for people in all walks of life, from all over the world - and they do come to me from all over the world - and they have communication with their respective relations whom I couldn’t possibly know anything about. Then if I accept that, which I must do, for the sheer evidence and the weight of it, then why shouldn’t I accept the fact that this particular voice, shall we say, is Ellen Terry?
Why should I disbelieve? Why should I doubt? I don’t say it is. That’s another thing, you see? I’m…


Andrews:
But you’re willing to say that you don’t believe everything you hear?

Flint:
I don’t necessarily believe everything I hear, unless it is proved to me. The extraordinary thing is, that as a Medium…

Andrews:
How can it be proved? How can Ellen Terry prove that she is…

(Both talking)

Flint:
…I agree and I couldn’t agree more. But remember I don’t suppose any of us can prove that that is Ellen Terry’s voice.
But I personally don’t think that’s so important, in a sense. Er, whether one accepts the fact that’s Ellen Terry or not, at least the message (unknown) the message is one for the world, in an attempt from this personality from the other side, to try and do something to help the world to save itself from what is…looks as if it’s going to be destruction.


In other words, this is not a new thing, I mean, this has been happening for centuries. Behind every religion there is this fundamental truth of life after death - people trying to communicate with this world. It doesn’t matter what religion you take. You take the life of Christ, he appeared to his disciples in the upper room. If he (unknown) they were desperate men, they were unhappy men. They thought their (unknown) had gone to the wind and he appeared among them.


If Christ hadn’t appeared from the dead, there could have been no Christianity. And even then they doubted. They were…one wanted to put his hand in his side to make sure, and then there was this terrible uncertainty.


The whole point is, that if there’s no life after death, there’s no point in religion. All we are trying to do is - as far as we can, intelligently - try to bring the evidence forward. And the extraordinary thing is, that the people who we think would most welcome what we are trying to do, are the people who invariably try to explain it away, stand in the way, put obstacles.


All we can say is that, as a Medium I am only interested in trying to help humanity, to prove survival, to give comfort for those who are bereaved - and one would think that one would be welcomed, but unfortunately it is not so.


                                                                                         The End

Originally broadcast in the UK on national TV in 1968.


Our grateful thanks goes to Ann Harrison for sharing this rare recording with the Trust.