The Ted Butler séance
Recorded: February 10th 1964
"I must have hung around my house for weeks..."
Dr Charles Marshall concludes this communication by suggesting
that the ordinary and interesting people who communicate
make these recordings worthwhile.
Researcher and medium Alfred Scarfe adds a final word on this recording, about his efforts to contact the wife of Dr Marshall...
Please read the full transcript below as you listen...
Present: Leslie Flint, George Woods, Betty Greene.
Communicators: Edward Butler, Dr. Charles Marshall and Mickey.
The following Direct Voice tape recording is that of Edward Butler. He was killed in an accident in the street. This was recorded on the tenth of February 1964, the sitters being Mr. S.G. Woods and Mrs. B. Greene. Medium, Mr. Leslie Flint.
[We can hear you] quite well.
Yes, very clear...
I'm very, uh, interested in all this.
I'm not quite sure, myself, you know, as to whether I'm being heard proper...properly...
Yes, we can hear you.
Oh, yes. We can hear quite well.
It's always something of an effort, I think, to make contact like this, you know. I have been several times in the past, but, uh, I must say, I still find it very confusing.
You're Mr. Woods...
...we're very glad you've come through.
...and you're Mrs. Greene.
May we have your name?
I've heard a lot about you from people on this side who've been coming back, you know. And I said, 'well, one day I hope I'll get a chance to have a few words.'
May we have your name, friend?
My name is Edward. Ted.
And what's your surname?
What is your surname?
Oh, my surname?
My name is Edward Butler, Ted Butler.
Yes. I've been here now quite a few years, you know. I came here, ooh, 1923 I think it was. Yes, it must have been 1923. Yes it was. 1923. That's a good few years ago now isn't it?
Yes. I didn't, uh, have much time for this sort of thing. In fact, I didn't really know anything about it. My old woman, she was inclined to this sort of thing, but, uh, I didn't take too much notice. I just...well, I discarded it as a lot of old women’s talk, you know.
She used to go to meetings occasionally. She used to sometimes tell me bits and pieces. 'Ah', I said, 'a lot of rubbish!' And here I am myself, talking to you from here! So I'm placed in the position, you might say, of having to accept the fact, whether I want to or not.
I'm must admit I'm very glad to be able to. I'm very happy here. I
can't understand why, now of course, people don't all realise this.
And why there's any preju...prejudice about it, I haven't any idea.
Because it's the most natural thing to live...live after, what you
call, death, you know.
Mr. Butler, can you tell us...can you tell us how you passed over and how you found yourself?
Oh yes, I was killed in an accident.
I was crossing the high street. On a Saturday it was - I always remember. I'd been out doing a bit of shopping and I was across the road and before you knew Jack Robinson,* something hit me. It was some lorry that I think got out of control or something, down the slope. Anyway, it got me pinned against the wall, uh, and I was out! Anyway, I...just remember something coming towards me, and that's all.
It all happened so sudden, you know. I've no, sort of...well, I suppose it's as well not to dwell on those things, you know. And I...
But the old girl she, naturally at the time, was in a proper state. She got married again some few years after. I don't blame her. Why shouldn't she? I mean, there's not much point...she was not quite...well, she was about 53 or 54 I think she was, May was. And...
But how did you actually find yourself?
Eh? Find myself?
Yes. What sort of conditions?
Well, I don't know. All I know is, that I saw a crowd of people all standing, looking down at something...and I had a look with the crowd and I looked and saw someone who looked exactly like me!
thought...well, at first I didn't realise it was me. I thought,
'well, that's a coincidence. That fellow looks the same as I do,
exactly the same. It might be a twin brother.' And it was me of
course. I didn't cotton on* at the time.
uh, then I realised that my wife - who was there crying her eyes out,
of course - she didn't seem to realise I was standing beside her. She
was making such a fuss and how-d'ya-do*, of course, which is all very
natural, I suppose, naturally. But she didn't seem to know I was
there. I thought, 'well, this is a rum do* this is.'
uh, anyway, they put the body in the ambulance, you know, and the
wife got in. And some nurse or some woman was there - I think she
must have been a nurse - and I naturally got in with the wife and sat
in this ambulance thing...and she didn't seem to realise I was
sitting there at all.
gradually it came on me that, that was me lying down there and I was
sitting there as right as rain, you might say, but the wife didn't
seem to cotton on to the fact I was there. And I went to the hospital
and...oh! Then, of course, they put me in a mortuary and I didn't
like that at all. I didn't fancy that, so I got out that quick and
went home. And the wife was with Mrs. Kitchen next door, trying to
comfort her, you know.
Oh dear, it was a time. I think that was the worst time of the lot, the first week, I suppose it must have been. Then there was the funeral and all that. Of course, I went to that and I thought to meself at the time, 'well I don't know. There's all this fuss and how-d'ya-do and expense for nothing'.
there I was. I was in the carriage, an horse-drawn carriage the wife
had, 'cause she knew my love of horses. They did have motors, but she
wanted this horse-drawn I suppose. And I thought, 'it's all very
touching', but at the same time it all seemed so damn silly to me,
because there I was.
took any notice. The old parson; I knew him of old - not that I ever
had anything to do with him. I never went to his church or anything,
but when we had our first kid christened we went there. We were
married years before that in another district, but anyway...
well, he was standing there reciting away, you know and I thought,
'well, I don't know. He should know if anyone knows.' So I went and
stood beside him, and kept nudging him with me elbow in the side. He
didn't take any notice at all. He just went on with his ritual, you
know. And then he, sort of, spoke to the missus and one or two
friends and neighbours and that, but...ah, he was off out of it and
lifted up his old skirts and off he went. He couldn't care less. I
expect he got his little bit.
there was the gravediggers. I knew one of them, old Tom Corbett. He
was a case he was. You'd have many a pint with him and a laugh. He
filled in the...with the other bloke, filled in the old coffin and
that, the old grave. Huh! I thought, 'well this is a fine
how-d'ya-do. I'm not staying down here with this lot,' so I got out
of that. I didn't quite know what to do...I was in a proper...sort of
thing. I must have hung around my house for weeks I should think...
Mmm. Go on.
Once or twice I would go on the old trams and...first I was, sort of, all mixed up. I used to have a laugh too sometimes. I used to think, 'if the corporation knew I was sitting on here and not paying me fare, they'd say something!' But then again, I began to realise that everybody sitting on that tram, for instance, wasn't paying their fare either. Some...some of them had got away with it for years, one way and another.
of course, there was one or two there that I met; I remember one of
the first real conversations I ever had was with a woman sitting next
to me on a tram. And, uh, I thought she seemed very, sort of, nice
and that, and she started up a conversation.
remember she said something to me, she says, uh, 'What
are you doing here?' I thought, 'that's
a fine way to open up a conversation.' I said, 'What
do you mean, what am I doing here? I might as well be here as
anywhere else, if I want to be.' 'Yes',
she says, 'I know, I suppose. But
you ought to be doing something, not just going up and down in trams
and buses and going worrying your wife. You can't do anything that
way.' So I says, 'Well',
said, 'it's all very well for
said, 'but where do you go then?'
Of course, I realised then that she was dead, you know.
thought, 'well, what's she doing on the same lark as me? If she's
dead, she's dead, what...you know'. I said...'Well,'
said, 'as a matter of fact,' she
says, 'I've been coming up and
down on the trams and the buses with you for some time. Well, you
probably never noticed me until just now,' she
says. 'But I've been here,
waiting for a chance to try and give you a hand.'
And I said, 'Well what can you do?'
she says, 'Well, don't you think it's
time you got away and got out of these here conditions? It's only
your thoughts that's holding you down. You want to do more than this
surely; hanging around the Earth? Nobody takes any notice of you.
What's the point of it?'
So I said, 'Well, there's some sense in that. It's true, no-one takes any notice. But I find it's...it's...it's...better than, better than...sort of...just sort of...well, not bothering at all. In any case,' I said, 'I don't know of anything else.'
she said, 'Well, that's your fault. It's
your state of mind that keeps you down here. If you was to release
your thoughts,' she said, 'and
think about things of a higher thought and nature, you'd get away
from all this.' She
said, 'Of course, I understand
it's partly due to the way you passed, the suddenness of it, and the
thought vibrations (as she called it)
of your wife and mother and one or two
other people, holds you down and,' she
says, 'But you ought to get away from
all this.' She says, 'You
come with me.'
So I says, 'Well, where're we going?' So she says, 'Oh, I'll take you. Don't you worry.' So I says, 'Well, shall we get off at the next stop?' She says, ''What do you mean, get off at the next stop? It's not necessary to wait and get off at the next stop. We can get off whenever we want to - once you've made up your mind you want to get away from things.' So I says, 'Well, I don't understand that.'
she says, 'You should know by
although you can get in a bus, for instance, and sit in the bus and
get off at the stop and get on at the picking up place and all that,
you don't have to be like that. You don't have to do what everybody
else does. You're only doing things out of habit.'
She says, 'You've got to get out of some
of those habits and realise now that these things aren't important
and you can, by the mere thought, you can translate...transmit
yourself...transfer yourself', that's
it, 'transfer yourself from this
I said, 'Well, I don't know.' So
she says, 'Look,' she
says, 'here's my hand. You hold
my hand, just close your eyes and try not to think of anything in
particular. Just make your mind a sort of blank. But don't think of
anything material anyway.' So I did as
she told me. I found it a bit hard. I don't know how long we must
have been on that bus before we got off it, but still...that's
neither here nor there is it? Anyway, next thing I knew it was as if
I must have lost consciousness or something.
next thing I knew I was sitting in a very nice armchair opposite this
lady, in a very nice little parlour. Nice little room it was, you
know. Very pretty, very nice. Chintz curtains, there was, at the
windows. There was a nice hearth rug on the floor and, uh, although
there was a wonderful feeling of lightness and warmth, there was,
what I thought, was the sun was shining through the windows.
looked spick and span. The table was nicely laid out. Oh, there was
everything there that one would want. It was just like as if I had
gone somewhere for afternoon tea, you know. I thought, 'Well, I don't
know. Where am I now?' The place wasn't familiar to me, although it
was very nice. So she said, 'Oh, I've
brought you here.' She says, 'You'll
realise now,' she says, 'you're
in my little home.' I says,
'Oh, that's very nice of you. I don't know what my wife would think
of me for sitting in a strange woman's home!'
she said, 'Ah,'
she laughed. She says, 'You don't think
like that now.' She
said, 'That's far away from you.'
says, 'Now we'll have a nice chat
and a nice cup of tea and I'll explain things to you,' you
see. So I said, 'Well, that's very nice
of you dear.' She
said, 'Oh, by the way,'
she says, 'I'd like you to...to know,'
she said, 'that
I've been here for, oh, many years. I came here just at the turn of
the century.' So
I said, 'Oh yes?' So
she said, 'Yes.' she
says, 'I had a seizure,'
she says, 'and I fell down beside the
kitchen table. I always remember myself, how it happened. And I must
have fallen into unconsciousness,' she
says. 'But my dear mother came and
fetched me away.'
says, 'I'm very happy here and
I'm living with my mother.' So
I said, 'Oh are you?' I
says. 'Well where's your mother now
then?' 'Oh,' she says, 'She's
out.' 'Oh yes' I says.
'Well, how? Does she go to work?' So
she says...she laughed. She says, 'Well,
yes I suppose you could call it work, but not work in the old way. My
mother was a hard-working woman when on Earth, you know. She used to
take in washing for people and she was always doing something or
other. But now she's very busy. She goes to a place where she looks
after the children, because she was always fond of the children. And
these children are little children who died in infancy or when they
were very young, you know, and she helps to bring them up and helps
them look after them, you know. She loves that work. She'll be back
says, 'we'll have a cup of tea.'
I thought, 'well, this is nice.' I
thought, 'well, that's funny, I wonder if I'm going to taste it?'
Because when I used to go from...you know, to my wife's place or some
place and they're having a cup of tea, I used to think, 'oh, I'd like
a cup of tea.' But of course, I couldn't pick up the cups, you see.
You know, I suppose I wouldn't have tasted it. But she said, 'Oh you will here.' She said, 'Here, because you're in an entirely different atmosphere,' she said, 'you're in your natural conditions now, so everything around you will be real and natural. Now,' she says, 'you put out your hand and,' she says, 'you'll feel things as real, not like when you was going back to your wife and other places, things didn't seem to have any, sort of, reality.'
She says, 'Here you will.' She says, 'You have this cup of tea, dear, and you'll taste it. It'll taste just the same as tea you have on Earth.' So I tasted it, and it was. And she says, 'Well, isn't that nice?' I says, 'Yes, it's very nice,' I says, 'but who'd have thought?' I said. I couldn't help laughing. I said, 'Well who would think that people on Earth would think of us sitting up here having cups of tea. They'd think we were crazy,' you know. So she said, 'Well, of course, that's the point.' She says, 'People just don't understand.'
she says, 'according to how you, sort
of, got on,' as she put it. She says,
'and as you progress,' she says, 'so
you find things there for your needs. If, when you first come, you
feel it's necessary to have this or that, it's provided for. But it's
only a, sort of, temporary thing until you've adjusted yourself to
the fact that you don't need those things,'
she said, 'I don't normally,' she
she says, 'have tea or anything
like that.' She
says, 'But since you were a guest
in my house and you're getting gradually accustomed to things, I
thought it would help you, to be able to make it as natural as
said, 'But it's only for your
benefit.' I said, 'Well,
that's very nice of you. You shouldn't have gone to the trouble.' 'Oh
said, 'it's no trouble. It's part
of my work.'
So she says, 'Oh yes,'
she says. 'I make a habit,'
she says, 'of going down to Earth and if
I can help someone that's like you was, Earthbound...' I
said, 'What did you say?'
says. I said, 'Earthbound?' She
says, 'Yes, that's what you was,
poor dear.' She says,
'You was tied down to the Earth because of your state of mind and
your thoughts. You couldn't release yourself. And that's a part of my
job; to help people release themselves from material things.'
she says, 'I
was able to do that.' She said, 'I
travelled up and down on that there...on that there bus,'
she says, 'and on that tram,'
she says, 'many a time with people.
Because I used to live in that town years ago.' So
I said, 'Oh, did you?'
She said, 'Yes,'
she says, 'I made it a sort of habit to
go back myself in the early stages, the early years,'
she said, 'back to the town,'
she says. 'And of course, there were
many people I knew there and I thought it would be a wonderful thing
if I could help those people - especially those who really needed
help - from that place, you see. So I'm doing my little bit.'
She says, 'Thousands and thousands of
people do that, you know, and I'm only one of them.'
Mmm. Very interesting.
Yes. Oh, well, of course, I...the funny thing is, I wasn't really a native of that place. I went there I suppose, oh, I must have been about nineteen, to work in a factory there.
Leeds, I was talking about. Yes. Oh, it's many years ago now.
What's it like on your side there?
What's it like on your side?
Oh, well, depends on what you're looking at. Because there are so many diversities of places and conditions, you might say, that I could describe so many different conditions and, I suppose, other people would describe something else, which, in a sense, is rather different. But in the main, I suppose if you put it all together - if you could do such a thing - you might say you've got every aspect of scenery and condition of life that you would associate with Earth, only in a...
don't know, I suppose it's like all the beauty of the world - your
world - without any of the irritations and the snags and things.
There's gorgeous places: lakes and forests and trees and birds;
flowers and beautiful light: not harsh. It's a soft and yet beautiful
light. It's not...I first of all wondered if it was due to the sun,
but I was told since it has nothing to do with the sun at all.
It's an illumination that is of natural...natural being, but what its source it is, I really never discovered. Evidently, um, evidently it's something vastly different to the Earth, where you're dependent on the sun and the moon and the stars. We're not dependent on those. It's a world which is so far removed, you might say, from the old idea of things, in some senses.
these laws which affect us all here, are so natural in themselves
that there's no injustice. There's a perfect realisation, you might
say, of things, which somehow changes us all gradually. But, we live
in a harmon...harmonious state of being that is so beautiful because
there is no ill will, no bad thinking. Of course, there are on lower
spheres, I suppose. As I say, it's all matter of how far you've gone
and what you've achieved.
of course, after a time when I did get settled down, I did go back a
few odd times to see the wife. She got married again. I didn't blame
her for that. But, um, I don't know, it seemed as if the old Earth
didn't mean the same to me. I went once or twice to places and
met...or went to see people. Of course, nobody understood. I went
once or twice to the Spiritualist place where the wife used to go.
She used to talk to me about a little place, down The Cut* it was.
But, uh, I didn't think too much to it. I went up the old stairs in
this room where they had it. One or two people there that I
recognised, but...I once got a message over, of sorts, but, uh, I
don't think I was very good at it. It's all very interesting.
know, you are lucky you two are 'cause you've had some - what I've
heard of it - a lot of experience. Course, you're bound to come up
against some awkward customers. I should imagine the most difficult
ones are the religious ones, because they've got so much, sort of,
fixed in their minds and take a hell of a lot of shifting, I should
think. Give me the man whose mind's open and is not cluttered up with
a lot of ideas.
I realise now so much more. I often think; if only I'd understood
this I wouldn't have been running around, travelling around in buses
and trams and worrying myself, as I was at times. Silly, you might
say - all because I was ignorant. You know, that's the trouble with
the world - ignorance. If only people weren't ignorant of this here
truth, you know, of life and what happens at death. [It would] make a
vast difference to an untold number of people, in every shape and
not only would it make a big difference to the people that come over,
but also a big difference to the people who are left behind. I think
then everyone would see things differently and they'd understand more
and it would change them. It would make different, new people of
them...break down all these here daft barriers people have got about
colour and religion and...and class and all that nonsense.
it's...I don't know, I'd heard of Utopia as they call it when on
Earth. Well, I suppose if there is such a thing as Utopia, this is
it, because believe me it really is a world in which there's a full
life in every sense. There's no...no feeling of, well, of ill will of
any kind. Everyone gets on fine and we're all in harmony and there's
great peace and opportunity to do all the things you'd want to do,
all the interests you want. It's a wonderful thing, you know,
wonderful! Only wish I could convince everyone, [it would] make a vast
difference to them all, believe me it would.
think you two are marvellous. The way you go around and the way you
try to work and help people and show them the truth. I think you two
are highly to be thought of, I do really. I heard about you from a
friend of mine, as a matter of fact, who does rescue work. He says
'you want to go and sometime try and get
in touch with that Mr. Woods and Mrs. Greene, 'cause they really are
doing a good job.'
like some of these other people that...well, I won't say. It's not
for me to condemn is it? But you're doing a wonderful job.
Bless...bless you both. Anyway I can't hold on...'cause I'm not so
good at this. I've been two or three times...
It's very nice of you to...
...but I must say it's the first time I've ever had a real talk. Anyway, God bless you both...
Thank you for coming through...
...and carry on the good work and don't get down in the dumps. You can't please everyone. Bound to get some brickbats* you know! Ah! You're a good couple. Bye-bye.
Thank you Mr. Butler, very, very much.
Thank you very much for coming through. Thank you.
We let him come because we thought that he would be an illustration of a kind, that would interest and appeal to many. He was just an ordinary hum-drum, you might say, individual when on your side, but whose reaction to life here is remarkable. He's progressed, of course, especially from the time of which he spoke, when he first came over.
is true there are many people who do cling to the Earth and do carry
on, sometimes for a very long time, doing very much the same thing as
they would have done when on Earth; travelling in buses and on
trains; going to theatres and cinemas; visiting homes, people that
they used to know; all sorts of mundane things which hold them,
because it's the only thing that they seem to be able to understand
or appreciate - in spite of the fact that they're completely ignored.
see, until a person's mind is changed and their outlook, it's very
difficult for them to be released always from material things. Of
course, a large number of people, uh, do leave the Earth immediately
at death. But there are people who, for various reasons, are held
back by material thoughts, by conditions and all manner of things.
That's why if only this truth were understood and accepted, it could
save a great deal of unhappiness and many people could see, early on
after their passing, the truth and the realisation of life.
would mean less work for many of us here who come to help them and
bring them away from Earth conditions. Indeed, one might go on and
say that the whole tragedy is that, in life, very few people know in
your world about the realities of the spirit. They know so little
about life itself. They're so concerned with existing materially that
they know nothing or little of the things of vital importance. They
know nothing of the things of the spirit; the real life that is the
life of continuity; the life that never ceases. Instead of building
for the things that are permanent, so many build for the things of
the material - which have their moment and are gone.
only wish it were possible for so many other souls that we have in
mind to come and talk to you and no doubt some of them will. We want
to bring you a varied group of entities, peoples, so that you shall
have a very good cross section of humanity and their reactions to
life here. Because we do know that you make full use of your
recordings and that gives us great pleasure.
a great joy for us to come to you because we feel that we are
achieving something. We feel that we're not, in a sense, wasting our
time, which so often we have done and do with others. I know it is an
important thing to give the personal proof and the evidence and the
comfort to the individual, but so many people, once they've received
that, do nothing else. They don't do anything to forward the truth
and to help others. You are doing a real work and it's a great
pleasure and a great joy to come to you. It's been very nice this
morning, particularly, because I feel that, um, in letting our friend
through we've probably introduced an interesting character, an
interesting experience for many and I know you'll make full use of
We shall make full use of it. I can assure you of that.
My blessing to both of you.
Dr. Marshall can you hold on a minute?
I will, yes.
Can you give me any idea of who I can take your information about the cancer cure to - because I'm so anxious to help your wife over this as well, you see?
I appreciate your...very kind...
Can you give me any idea of who I could take it to who would be interested?
I don't think I could. For the simple reason that I don't think anyone is going to be interested who might be able to help. They weren't interested during my Earthly lifetime, they would not listen and had no interest shown whatsoever. I think it's less likely even now. I know everyone is very anxious to help in this respect, but we can only hope and pray.
We are endeavouring to assist in anyway we can, but...I'm afraid I cannot give you any names of who to go to. I think it would be a fruitless effort on your part, but I appreciate the kindliness and the thought.
Thank you, my dear, I must go. Goodbye.
Goodbye Dr Marshall.
Thank you Dr Marshall
The second speaker that you heard from the world of spirit, was a guide to the circle Dr Marshall. Dr Marshall, when on Earth lived at Southend-on-Sea and passed* into the Spirit world, I do not know quite when, but not so very long ago. I wrote to Mrs Marshall* regarding the cancer cure, asking if I could help her to place this valuable information in the right quarter. But this [is going] to Scotland, so she told me, and when it came back to her, if they had done nothing with it, then I would be given the opportunity to see what I could do.
But Mrs Marshall also passed on about a fortnight or three weeks after that. So this cancer cure, which was known when Dr Marshall was on Earth, has not been brought into being as a helpful cure for those who suffer from cancer.
END OF RECORDING
= from the phrase, 'before
could say Jack
A figure of speech indicating an event that occurred very quickly.
Cotton on = to realise.
How-d'ya-do = an unexpected scene or situation.
a rum do = a strange or difficult situation.
down The Cut = by the Leeds and Liverpool canal.
hum-drum = regular or ordinary.
* Dr Charles Marshall died in May 1940.
* Mrs Marshall, the wife of Dr Charles Marshall, died in October 1966.
This transcript was created for the Trust by Simon Lovelock and edited by K.Jackson-Barnes - April 2018
With thanks to Joëlle Cerfoglia.