The Leslie Flint Educational Trust

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The Ena Churchill séance


Recorded : April 19th 1974

 
“There's no barrier here in regard to language...
we can communicate entirely on a mental wavelength.”

A sitting for Sheila Nicholson and her family,
who hear from their friend 
in the Spirit World, Ena Churchill. 


Mickey speaks first and after a little effort,
Ena arrives and soon goes into detail about her philosophy
and gives her view of life in the next world.

Even Leslie Flint is amazed at how well she is able to communicate...

 


"I can't remember the last time I had a sitting where somebody just took the whole thing over !"
                                                              
                                                                                                              - Leslie Flint

 
 
PLAY                                                                     VOLUME

Read the full transcript below as you listen...


Present:
Leslie Flint,
Sheila Nicholson and friends.
Communicators: Mickey, Ena Churchill.


Flint:
[This séance was] recorded on the 19th of April 1974, Medium Leslie Flint.

Mickey:
Hello Sheila.


Sheila:
Oh, hello Mickey, nice to hear from you again.

Mickey:
[Sighs] How are you? That’s your Mum innit?


Sheila:
Mum’s here yes, that’s right.


Mickey:
Yeah. Hello Aunty...


Sheila:
Hello, Aunty, he said to you Mum.


Sheila's Mother:
Hello Mickey, yes…[Laughing]


Mickey:
I'm really pleased to see you and your friends.


Sheila:
It's so nice to hear you again Mickey.


Mickey:
I haven’t met that…fella.


[Laughter]

Sheila:
No...


Mickey:
How are you mate?


1st Male Sitter:
Very well indeed thanks Mick.


Mickey:
I suppose you're new to all this then? Are you sceptical?


Flint:
[Laughs] Oh!

1st Male Sitter:

Well, a little bit new, yes.


Mickey:
That’s alright mate everybody has to start, don’t they?


1st Male Sitter:
Yes.


Mickey:
You’re a bit of a case you are.


1st Male Sitter:
Yes, I’ve heard you say on the many recordings I’ve heard of your voice before.


Mickey:
Oh, you’ve heard them there tape things have you?


1st Male Sitter:
Yes, that’s right. We’ve all got tape things...


Mickey:
Yeah. Mac...


Mac:
Yes?


Mickey:
Stop fidgeting mate will ya.


[Laughter]


Mickey:
[Your] mate's here, Ena.


Mac:
Is she?


Mickey:
Yeah, 'old Churchill'...is she related to old Churchill himself?


Mac:
Oh, I don't...vaguely connected perhaps, but I don't...


Mickey:
She’s a proper character, you know....She really is. She’s a real lady ain’t she?


Mac:
She is.


Mickey:
You know. Very 'autocratic' as you call it.


Mac:
Is she?


Mickey:
Well, I think she is a bit.

Mac:
Do you think so? Mmm?


Mickey:
Well, it's a matter of opinion ain’t it? But you know she’s here. She’s a proper case she is. She’s laughing all over her face, she is.

Mac:
Is she?


Mickey:
Yes. She is ever so thrilled and happy ‘cos you’re here, and she knows that other lady and all. Well, she knows several of you, don’t she?


Mac:
Joan?


Mickey:
Yeah.


Joan:
Yes, she does.


Mac:
She knows us all I think.


Mickey:
Yeah, I think she does. She’s been walking - moving round.


Mac:
Has she?


Mickey:

Yes and she’s ever so pleased 'cause those kid - youngsters have come


[Laughter]


[Break in recording]

Mickey
:
...crowd of people gosh. Must say when you lot come there’s always a lot of people. Gosh.


1st Male Sitter:
There are a crowd of people around you are there?


Mickey:
Yeah - and you.


1st Male Sitter:
How do they know to come? Do they...


Mickey:
Well, you see when you lot - when you people decide you're coming somewhere like this, then they come with you.


1st Male Sitter:
Oh do they?


Mickey:
I can’t go - I can’t go running around searching for them.


1st Male Sitter:
They all sort of - we send out messages and they've all got...like radios or something?


Mickey:
Well yes, in a kind of way you do. It’s all telepathic, you know 'mental' as you call it, you know. Yeah, but you have to send out thoughts to people, and they come along.


1st Male Sitter:
Oh.


Mickey:
I mean, after all, that’s exactly what anyone does ain’t it? They get in touch mentally. I mean, for instance, you'll think of what you want to say and then your vocal organs they transmit and vibrate what you call the atmosphere, and you hear the sound, but it’s your thoughts that are the thing, ain’t it?


1st Male Sitter:
Yes, I suppose so. Mmm.


Mickey:
What you mean, you suppose so?


1st Male sitter:
Well I mean...I don't know [unintelligible] I am able to interpret thought from other people, directly, at least consciously.


Mickey:
Yeah.

[Break in recording]

Mac:
Does it mean that Churchill is going to talk to us at all? She usually has quite a bit to say.


Mickey:
Give us a breather!

Mac:
Alright.


Mickey:
I'll arrange it. You are an impatient one ain’t ya? Typical schoolmarm.

[Loud laughter]

Sheila's Mother:
That’s below the belt a bit.

Mickey:
Well you know, teachers are like that ain’t they?

Female sitters:
[Both speaking]

Mickey:
Do what?


Mac:
Not like that, they’re quite…


Mickey:
Well a lot of them are ain’t they? They have to....well, they have to, otherwise they'll get no disci...disci...discipline, will they? Otherwise, the kids would play ‘em up.


Mac:
True.


Flint:
[Laughing]
Oh dear, oh dear!

Mac:
...they try us anyhow.


Mickey:
Well you should know!


[Laughter]

Flint:

Mickey’s in a mood.

[General chatter]

Ena:
Yes...[Sigh]. Hello?

Female Sitters:
Hello?

Ena:
Ena...

Female Sitters:
Ena.


Ena:
Yes, how are you?


Mac:
All well.


Ena:
Can you hear?


Female Sitters:
Yes. Just...


Ena:
[Breathing]
I am not sure if you can hear me.


Sheila:
Yes, we can hear you. It's a whisper so far.


Ena:
Oh, is it?


Sheila:
Yes, but we can hear.


Ena:
It’s very difficult to know as to whether you can hear. [Breathing]. You’ve brought the children.

Female Sitters:
The children, yes. The two young ones...


Ena:
Yes. [Breathing].


Mac:
They’re not children any more of course, are they?


Ena:
No dear, I know that.


Mac:
You do...


Ena:
But I suppose I mustn’t call them children. Tom...Tom.


Sheila:
Tom?

1st Male Sitter:
Tom?


Ena:
Tom. [Breathing] I’m not sure if I can manage. Can you hear me?


Sheila:
Yes. Only just.


Mickey:
Hold on, she’ll get stronger. She’s a bit excited I think. She’s ever so pleased 'cause you brought them young 'uns.


Sheila:
Oh good.


Mickey:
She knows them.

Joan:
Yes, she does.


Mac:
Who is the 'she'?


1st Male Sitter:
Who is she, yes? How does she know us?

Sheila:
Well she's Aunt Gillian’s companion.

Ena:
I’ve, I’ve come to see you all you know. I’ve come to see you all.


Two Sitters:
Oh, Yes.


Ena:
And therefore, I know quite a lot.


Mac:
Can you see us?


Ena:
Yes. I do wish things could be sorted out for you. I suppose they will eventually. Joan...


Joan:
Yes.


Ena:
How are you?


Joan:
I’m very well and it's lovely to hear you Ena, it’s terribly nice talking to you.


Ena:
Sheila.


Sheila:
Hello, yes.


Ena:
Hello my dear, how are you?


Sheila:
It's so nice to hear you. I'm very well Ena thank you.


Ena:
[Breathing]
I’m trying so hard to speak, but I don’t know for sure…


Sheila:
Well, could it help if we speak? [unintelligible] We can hear you...


Ena:
Yes.

Sheila:
...if we can think of what to say.


Mac:
Can you see us all sitting here Ena?


Ena:
Yes, yes. Yes, of course, I can.


Sheila:
Ena, can you tell us what things are made of, like what your piano is made of, that you play. You play the piano, don’t you?

Ena:
Yes.

Sheila:
Well, what is it made of? What material?


Ena:
I can’t answer dear because I honestly don’t know.


Sheila:
Oh I see, but it's solid to you isn't it?


Ena:
Very solid.


Sheila:
But you can’t tell us what...when you...when you, sort of, put your clothes on, you can’t tell us what your clothes are made of can you?


Ena:
Not really.

Sheila:
No?

Ena:
Excepting, they seem to be very much like what one had on Earth. But the substances are real to us...but of course, it's really quite impossible to describe, if one can describe, in a sense. Everything I say to you has to be brought down to a material level for you to understand.

Various Sitters:
Yes....Mmm....I understand.

1st Male Sitter:
I'm not wishing to be rude but why do you ever have to take your clothes off?

Ena:
Well,
I didn’t say that I did have to take my clothes, off did I?


1st Male Sitter:
No, you answered the question that you had to put them...when you put them on…


Ena:
Yes, alright. Yes.

1st Male Sitter:
Do you go to bed at night or...?

Ena:
Well not necessarily. You see, I think that the whole thing is that we are living in a mental world, which is not in a sense physical. It’s physical to us because we think, and as we think, we are. And therefore if I think to myself that I would like to wear a coat, then I can mentally clothe myself with a coat, according to my attitude or thought about it.


1st Male Sitter:
Yes...


Mac:
Can you have anything you like, any clothes...?


Ena:
Yes, well, this is what I am trying to say...that I find it may only be temporary. I don’t know.
But in the condition of life in which I find myself, everything is very natural, very normal. And possibly because I consider, as indeed do most people here consider, it’s necessary or essential to have this or that, then in consequence, because I think on that line, temporarily at least for the moment, if that’s the way to put it, one can have it.

But it may well be, that as one becomes more alert and more conscious of things and realises the possibility of further expansion of one’s experience, it may change. You see, I think that I am in a condition of life which, for me, is very suitable and in which I find myself extremely happy, meeting all sorts of people that I have known and who also think, I suppose, obviously very much the same as I do.

You see the whole point is, it seems to me, that a person is no more than he or she may think. That is why I think possibly some people, when they first pass over, cling to the Earth because they think only on a material level. They find it very difficult to change their attitude of mind and in consequence, remain very much the same as they were when on Earth, with the same attitude of mind and thoughts about so many things.

If you are the kind of person who is prepared to change, who is, shall we say, is anxious to see things clearly, not necessarily tied down to strong thoughts or ideas or emotions, if you are able to change your attitude and able to assimilate new experience, a lot depends on the individual.

I don’t look as you remember me, from the point of view of age, because I have come to realise that that’s purely a material thing in itself. That I’m not anymore using the same physical body, I’m not subject to the same restrictions, I’m not subject to the old thoughts and ideas, I’m not held down by material pressures. I'm now able to think clearly and on a different level and therefore, I suppose in a kind of way, I’ve assimilated new experience which I know I have. I cling perhaps to certain things which, I presumably feel at the moment, are necessary to me, things that I don’t wish to throw aside.

I mean, this business of wearing clothes...I mean, it is natural I suppose that one feels that one should wear certain wearing apparel. I suppose that comes from a sort of reticence within one’s self, that one would not like to be seen walking about naked, you know. But the point is, that of course, that’s the changing situation in your world. It seems to me that people are beginning now think rather differently...


[Group laughter]


Ena:
...because it seems to me that nobody bothers too much.


1st Male Sitter:
What are you...what’s your ambition now, you say you’ve put yourself onto a different level of understanding?


Ena:
Well there again, you ask me what ambition is. I...I suppose in a kind of odd way I haven’t really got an ambition at the moment. But you see there…


1st Male Sitter:
You must have a purpose in life?


Ena:
Yes, of course, one has a purpose, and I have a purpose. I have a purpose in, as it were, trying to sort myself out, trying to adjust myself by doing. Trying to find things that will be of service. That’s one thing that I’ve already learned, very much so - that no one, doesn’t matter who it is, can live to yourself and self alone. Over here we realise that we're all essential one to the other. We lose a lot of the old thoughts and ideas in the process and, of course, there is no, sort of, as it were, class consciousness for instance.


And another thing, there's no barrier here in regard to language. It's extraordinary. All manner and kind of people when on Earth who were different nationals, here it's of little...in fact no consequence. All thought force is a living reality. We don’t even...we don’t even have to speak to each other. We can communicate entirely on a mental wavelength, I suppose. It's a, sort of, being able to understand the other person, you know.


You take an animal - a dog or a cat. It can’t speak to you, but if it has been with you for some length of time, it...it...it seems to have a realisation of things that you're saying to it and vice versa. I think that often one senses and feels things with animals. Animals are very much more sensitive in some senses, I think, than human beings. They know things which, and even see things which, when on Earth we didn’t see. I’ve learned a great deal about animals and, indeed, I'm very fond of them over here...as you can well imagine.


1st Male Sitter:
Do you think they have souls?


Ena:
I, well it depends on what you mean by a soul. I mean, this business of 'what is the soul'. Nobody knows what a soul is, I don’t know what a soul is. You can’t depict or describe a soul. All I know is that I am living, that I have a body that is, really, a replica of my physical one at its prime. No age has touched it and I am conscious of myself, as myself. I suppose what animates us, what gives us life, what makes a reality of living, is this thing, if you like, you can call a soul. But you can’t analyse a soul. I can’t tell you what a soul is, I don’t know. Any more than I can tell you what God is.


We know that there is a life-giving force that animates all of us and gives us the power to reason, the power to understand, gives us freedom to express ourselves in whatever way we can express ourselves. Uh...I don’t know what a soul is. Does anybody know? I don’t think you can say what a soul is.


Sheila:
Personality, your personality…


Ena:
Yes, what I am is my soul, I suppose.


Sheila:
But Ena, you haven’t got...you haven't got a replica of physical organs, like a heart have you...?


Ena:
Well no, I don’t think so.


Sheila:
You don’t need it do you?


Ena:
I mean, the whole point is, that I suppose it is natural to assume that we must have shape. We must have form. If we didn’t, we couldn’t be recognised and we wouldn’t be able to, perhaps, do many of the things that we do.


1st Male Sitter:
And play the piano?


Ena:
Well of course. But I think this business of shape and form is necessary, and yet it isn’t the 'be all and the end of all'. It isn’t for you, it isn't for me. It's just an aspect of one’s self. It’s not the complete self, by any means. What gives you life is...is something much more that one can’t put into words. I don’t know how to describe it.


Sheila:
But Ena you can recognise people by their...


Ena:
Of course, you can. I can recognise you, I can see you. I can see people here and, of course, they’re as solid to me as I am to them. You are solid to me in a sense and yet you’re not. You see, now I am outside of your time, I'm outside of your solidity. Your world is vibrating at a very different rate, evidently, and I find that only when I get to a certain level and tune in, and it takes some...it’s quite problematic this, being able to communicate like this. 

I’m merely transmitting my thoughts. You’re hearing my thoughts in sound, reproduced; whether it’s that good or not I can’t really say, but I...I'm conscious of your presence, but I'm much more conscious of your thoughts.


This is what you don’t understand. I’m conscious of your figure and what you’re sometimes doing, once I'm in tune with you – as near as I can manage to be in tune with you - but it’s your thoughts that I...it's your consciousness, the awareness that I have of what you are thinking. This is the important thing, not so much the physical, but I suppose what you would call the mental.


But you, really you know, I must...I mustn’t take up all the time must I? Otherwise there will be other people go away disappointed.


Sheila:

Ena, when people first come over do...can you sort of hear their voices? Can you talk them as we do here?


Ena:
Well automatically you do, you see. The point is that, you see, you don’t suddenly, obviously change. What you thought was necessary or essential with a material body in a material world you assume, in the initial stages, that it's so here and it appears so.


Sheila:

Yes...


Ena:
It appears so because you expect it to be so and, to some extent, you are making it possible to be so. But actually, after a very...I say time, which doesn’t really exist for us in the sense that it does for you - but gradually you become aware that certain things are no longer what they seemed and not even necessary. This is a problematic thing which you find terribly difficult to put into words and depict or describe...but gradually you assimilate this experience and knowledge.


Sheila:
And I sometimes feel that things in this world aren’t as important as we make out. Is that true? Are things more important on your side than they are here?


Ena:
I would go as far as to say everything is important, while it’s, um, important to you - which sounds odd, but while you think a thing is necessary and while you think a thing is important or...no matter what it is, obviously it is so, because you feel so and you think so.


Sheila:
I think we make too much of things down here.


Ena:
I think this is obviously [unintelligible].


Sheila:
We worry too much.


Ena:
I mean, for instance, people have anxieties. They worry about this or that, and it concerns them greatly. It then becomes a very strong mental thing, then it becomes even more of a physical thing and if they worry unnecessarily and unduly, it affects their physical well-being. It can even bring on illness.


You see most illness, really, I’ve been able to gather this anyway, that it's true to say practically all illness, in the initial stages, is a mental thing and a process of thought. I mean, you’ll get somebody who is perfectly fit, but they will have this 'bee in their bonnet' and because their mother died of cancer that they may have inherited it, they may have cancer. They may have a perfect body, but if they constantly think about it and worry about it, become over anxious about it, then the body will start to change and it will become apparent that there is something developing or forming. I think it is true to say that whatever happens in your world is - in the beginning and obviously must be, or so it seems to me - a mental process of bringing it into action.


I mean, when one reads or...I used to think it was a very unjust thing when it was given that the sins of the fathers fall on the children. To me it sounded unjust, unfair, illogical, but when you think about it, there is some truth in it.

I mean, you take a war...a war is brought into being. Perhaps it doesn’t come in the generation of the people who brought it into being - or at least formulated the thoughts and the situations that followed to bring it into being - but the younger generation are the ones who have to suffer for what was brought into being by the thought forces and actions of their parents. 


You cannot escape from each other. I think we have to realise this. We are individuals, we’re personalities and we develop and we grow, and we become accepted as 'such and such' a person, with certain complexities or what have you, whatever it constitutes...whatever makes up our personality or our character. But the point is, that we are the product of each other, we cannot escape from each other. We may have a separate shape and form, we may have a name, we may be known as this or that; but we are all, to some extent, the product of other people's thoughts...[sitter coughs]...we can’t escape from each other or so it seems to me. But if I stay and talk to you...at length...


Sheila:
But Ena.

Ena:
Yes?


Sheila:
Is...um, have you met Topsy?


Ena:
Of course.

Sheila:
...who went over...


[Coughing]


Sheila's Mother:
Three weeks ago now.


Sheila:
...three weeks ago?


Ena:
Yes.


Mac:

How is she?


Ena:
Well sorting hers... I suppose it's true to say that we all sort ourselves out. We are helped in this of course and I suppose it would be true to say that, in a sense, Topsy’s resting. Do you understand that when I say that? You see some people need to rest. Some people are so confused, and perhaps they have suffered a great deal before arriving here, and they have very strong, perhaps, feelings and emotions which are very material in their context and they have to become adjusted. Sometimes it’s necessary for them to go through a condition or a phase, if you like, of readjustment.


It’s...it’s...it’s difficult to explain some of these things, because whatever I say to you, to make you understand it, I’ve obviously got to bring it down to a, sort of, material level and in consequence, it may lose some of the context that I would like to convey. I mean this is how it is.


Sheila:
How do you know when somebody arrives?

Ena:
Oh, we know because we’re invariably in tune or in touch. I mean, if someone is very near and dear to us, obviously we come and see them. We watch over them and, if possible, we try to help them and, of course, if they’re approaching what you term death then, of course, we make a point of being present. So, that when the person in question is freed from the physical body, then we are there to help them and to help them to feel comforted and to re-adjust. 


Because, of course, you do have some people who are Earthbound who just don’t want to leave the physical world, don’t want to leave the physical body, don’t want to leave their friends and loved ones and they cling to the Earth, because that’s how their mentality is.


Sheila:
Yes well, she was longing to go actually...


Ena:
Yes. Well, this is a different case you see, but some people don’t.


Sheila:
Ena, are there many dark spheres we have to go through to before we reach our...


Ena:
No. I wouldn’t say for one moment that there are any dark spheres.


Sheila:
Oh...


Ena:
You see any darkness is of the person himself. It's within the person’s mentality. It’s in the person’s makeup. You do know, what you sometimes refer to as dreams, are not necessarily dreams because you had cheese for supper you know or something like that.


[Laughter]


Sometimes they are definitely astral experiences, where you are released temporarily from the physical body and you enter into an astral condition, very near the Earth. And there are all these different layers of consciousness which people can enter into. That’s why, on some levels, you do have many things which are almost similar or very much like things upon the Earth. People...you don’t understand dear, I wish I knew how to...


You know, people no more than they think and a person will think on a certain level and create for himself a certain set of circumstances and conditions and environment in which he will find himself.


Sheila:
Well could friends on this side, for instance, when they die perhaps have a friend who is more advanced mentally and you mightn’t see them again, because they are so far on, that you mightn’t be able to...


Ena:
In other words they might skip certain layers, if you like, of consciousness?


Sheila:
Yes, you mightn’t be able to find them, yes...


Ena:
Well of course they will. You see, this is why I think that if everybody understood this truth of communication and that life after death does exist, does happen, I think if people understood this properly and applied it in their daily and their material lives, their whole outlook would be changed and they would become changed in consequence and help others to change.

I think this truth is the only hope for the world, I really do. It's the fundamental truth behind all religion anyway. If there's no life after death what is the point of religion? All religions preach, in some manner or form, something after death. But none of them attempt to prove it or to demonstrate it. And I think that this is where if people understood this, to some extent, if not completely, I don’t suppose anyone can completely, but if one can accept and understand it within reason, it would change and help them. 


I think the whole world would be better for it. And people would think and act differently in consequence, and I think it would break down the barriers between nations and peoples and get away, you know, with a lot of this stupid nonsense that goes on.


I mean, the creeds and the dogmas which sometimes really are separating people. I mean, look at Ireland, to some extent that's a religious war, I mean, the Catholics against the Protestants and so on. I think religion and intolerance builds barriers. I think a universal realisation of what life is all about and that death is not the end, could change the way of men in their thinking and their actions. This is the way I see it. I’d like to feel that it could be so.


Sheila:
I wish it could. Have you any...

Ena:
You know really, you've really got me on my 'high horse'!


[Laughter]


Ena:
But it’s not, no you, I, I feel rather guilty, because I don’t want to take up all the time, because of other people wanting to speak.


Mac:
Just tell us about...our two pets...the two dogs. Have you got them...can you have them with you?


Ena:
Of course, of course, of course.


Sheila:
Are they well?


Ena:
You know I do wish people could understand that, in some instances, it’s true to say that animals are more intelligent than we are. They are extremely aware and extremely sensitive to things which the ordinary human being isn’t aware or conscious about.


I think in the beginning, I mean, I can’t prove this, but I would assume that, before man became more sophisticated and more materialistic when he was much more simple and lived nearer to nature, I think there is every reason to believe that he was more aware of these things then, than he is today. With all his sophistication and scientific attitude and approach, I think science of course could, well possibly in the future, make this a living reality. 


I think that it is feasible that there may come a time when science will perfect some form of communication, between your world and ours, which will bring conviction.


Sheila:

Yes...that's interesting. And then everyone will know the truth won’t they Ena, then?


Ena:
Well, the truth is that we are living now more than we even thought was possible. I’m more alive now...I'm not exactly the same, of course I’m not. I suppose in some respects we must change, no one can stand still. I mean this is what life's all about. We are not stagnant, we're not going to stay stationary. We must change. We must assimilate new knowledge, new experience, new ideas and, in consequence, change our opinions and our attitudes. This is what life is all about, surely?


Sheila:
Ena, have you any idea of how long it will take for these ideas to penetrate and...


Ena:
Oh, I don’t know. How can one answer that question?


Sheila:
No...


Ena:
While man is more and more materialistic, as it seems that he...he is certainly more materialistic than ever I can remember. Today it seems to me that man is only concerned with self, in the lowest sense. Oh, there are others of course, who do aspire and do try to lift themselves out of the mire, but it seems to me, perhaps I am being unfair, but frankly, the more I see of your world, the happier I am to be out of it.


[Laughter]


All sitters:
Yes, yes...that's understandable....yes, you do.


Ena:
I mean, I can look back on my early years, I think we all can. I suppose some people would say, 'oh well it’s a sign of getting old' and 'you’re nostalgic for the past'. I’m not nostalgic for the past, exactly that, but it does seem to me that, I don’t know, the world is so changing and the worser part of self seems to be coming uppermost with the majority of people. It doesn’t seem to be the way of life that I remember or the feelings that we had. Alright, we made mistakes and, of course, everyone must make mistakes. 


When you think of the First World War and the last war, one would have thought that one would have learnt lessons, but one sees into your world now attitudes and conditions which appal. Although I will say this in fairness, I think that a lot of the young people are not as stupid as we were. You know we were rather blind. I think the young are not going to be as stupid as we were, they're not going to be led by the nose. I don’t want to go into detail because I don’t want to take up any more time, but I just feel that the wars, we...we brought them on ourselves. I don’t think we can blame anyone else, only ourselves.


1st Male Sitter:
Not the sins of your fathers?


Ena:
I...well, I think we, we, we made a contribution....I think that we created circumstances and conditions and of course now, I think younger people are not going to be so easily led. They are now beginning to be more analytical and beginning to become more, well, open-hearted and open-minded perhaps than we were. Of course, one can go back to all this business of class and position. Oh, there's so many aspects to it, but some things that were very good have been lost, and some things that were very bad, of course, have become lost in the process of change. 


I’d like to think that the future for the young people could be much better. I think that there is every reason to believe that it could be, but what I suppose distresses me, although I suppose in a sense it shouldn’t, is this permissive society...which seems to be going too far in one direction. I think that, um, this is a mistake. There again I may be wrong. This brings me back to where I started from, about not wearing any clothes!


[Laughter]


Mac:
There’s one other thing; do babies, who die as babies, do they grow up?


Ena:
Everything that has been given life isn’t lost. It must continue, and if a child comes here, it is cared for and nurtured and look after and educated and becomes, in consequence, of course, a more spiritually conscious and aware adult. I suppose that’s the only way to put it.


Mac:
Yeah.


Ena:
Oh, we have oh so many aspects of life which are so like the Earth, but many that are not. Can you hear me?


All sitters:
Yes...yes.


Ena:
Do you know, I shall be getting into trouble. I'm taking too much time.


2nd Male Sitter:
But Ena, you were connected with education in this world...

Ena:
Yes, unfortunately.


2nd Male Sitter:
Well, what do you think of the education which being forced...foisted onto us, by the political people and who are...


Ena:
I didn’t mean to say 'unfortunately'. I was being facetious.


[Laughter]


Ena:
I was merely being...I was...well I don’t know. I think, there again you see, that, um, I think that it is vital and important that people should have freedom to choose for themselves.


2nd Male Sitter:
Here, here.


Ena:
I think this is vital. I do see, of course, the other aspect, that there should be given equal opportunity for all. One has to accept that. But I do think that it should be left to the individual to choose for himself. And if a person is fortunate enough to be blessed, if that is the word, with more of Earthly possessions than perhaps others, and they wish their children to be educated in a certain direction, if they think it is good and they wish to do it, then they should have the freedom to do it. 


I would like also to feel that those who are less fortunate could have the same opportunity, I think that’s only fair and right.

But of course, I suppose the ultimate will be, if there is such a thing as the ultimate, a classless society, uh, which on the surface sounds a good thing, but it could also be rather boring I would have thought, in a sense. You know what I mean?


2nd Male Sitter:
Yes I do.


Ena:
I don’t really know. I’m getting perhaps a little muddled thinking about this, because I do think change has to come. It has come in my lifetime, and it will come in yours. Then the youngsters, of course, will see many changes, which we would have thought impossible. But I don’t think anybody, if they were to speak the truth, would like to see everything brought into being that was on the same level.


2nd Male Sitter:
I know.


Ena:
You know, I can’t imagine...and besides who are going to...what people...who are the people who are going to do the menial jobs? I mean, of course, there may be that many [unintelligible] will be in various things, which will make it possible that many jobs won't require service and servants. I don’t know.


Sheila:
Can you tell us if there's any life on any other planets Ena?


Ena:
Oh yes, I am sure there is.


Sheila:
Have you ever been to any other planet?


Ena:
No.


Sheila:
Oh.


Ena:
But there again you see, I think that it’s obvious to me, I don’t know with any...I can't prove it, but I'm quite sure there are thousands of worlds. Not just two or three and there are different, um, stratas of being, different aspects of evolution.

You see, the Earth...when we're on the Earth, we have this 'bumptious', I suppose you’d call it, I would now, idea, that we are the only living creation. That we are the 'be all and the end all' and that there is nothing else but us. Which I think is rather, on reflection now, I see things so differently, that I think is rather ludicrous.


Why should there only be one form of life or existence or one world, when we do know, science already is beginning to prove, I would have thought, there are many worlds and I think that man may in time contact some of these worlds and possibly the beings on those worlds.


Sheila:
But if they're more advanced on the other planets why haven’t they contacted us before?


Ena:
Perhaps they haven’t been able to, or perhaps they didn’t want to. Perhaps they didn’t want to be contaminated.


Sheila:
Probably not....[unintelligible].


Ena:
Another thing I’ve found - a sense of humour is vital.


Sheila:

Yes.


Ena:
People do have a sense of humour. You know, we laugh and we joke. Not, perhaps, quite the kind of jokes that one had on Earth, in some instances, but you would be surprised. We have lots of happiness.


Sheila:
Can
you joke in thought then too?


Ena:
Do you know, I'm taking up a whole sitting, as you call it...


Sheila's Mother:
I must say, it's very nice.

Ena:
and then you’ll go away and you'll say, 'if it hadn’t been for Ena I would have had so much more. I hope she doesn’t come next time'.


[Laughter]


Ena:
What did you say, Joan?


Joan:
I said it’s so interesting. Love to hear you. We can’t hear too much of you. We only hope you don’t...


Ena:
Well…education. How little we really know.


Joan:
We can learn so much from the things you tell us.


Sheila:
Ena, is there anybody over there that you can ask questions, uh, on things you don’t understand?


Ena:
Of course. Of course. There are great souls here. I know you’re...well you won’t laugh. If I were to tell you that I have met individuals over here that, well, I...I...people that I have read about or known about, in some shape or form and met some of them here, and of course, they're more advanced than I am. They’re very informative.


2nd Male Sitter:
People like Sir Oliver Lodge.


Ena:
Oh, people like Lodge and Sir William Crooks.


2nd Male Sitter:
Yes.


Ena:
And all manner and kind of people. I know it’s...I suppose this is where one has to be so careful. People who don’t understand the subject, who deride it...


Sheila:
Who just laugh.


Ena:
They just laugh and say, well...


1st Male Sitter:
You mean, you might meet people like Erasmus?


Ena:
Well, there is no reason why not and what a wonderful soul he was.


1st Male Sitter:
Mmm.


Ena:
Now he was somebody after my own heart, Erasmus.


1st Male Sitter:
Mmm.


Ena:
[Sigh]
Oh, I don’t know, I feel I’m being...I’m staying too long.


Mac:
Can you give any message to one or two people, friends who, as you say, deride this sort of thing and, um, you know think that it’s madness and that it's quite wrong?


Ena:
But my dear girl, if you play the recordings for them to listen to...then it’s up to them. What is the point of sending a message if a person won’t even listen?


Female Sitters:
No...Yes...Quite.


Sheila:
You’ve got to leave them alone?


Sheila's mother:
They don’t even want to listen to the recordings some of them.


Mac:
No.


Ena:
I think it is because they’re afraid...


Sheila:
Possibly. Some of them.


Ena:
Then, of course, some just feel the whole thing is…

Sheila's mother:
They can’t believe it.


Ena:
Do what?


Sheila's mother:
They can’t believe it.


Ena:
Well, this is their loss, but it’s understandable. One has to try and put oneself in their shoes. I think it’s very difficult sometimes for some people to even assume that it's feasible or possible - and yet they will wildly accept all sorts of things because, for instance, in the bible...


Sheila's mother:
Yes...

Ena:
...there are various things of people coming back from the, so-called, dead or communicating under some condition or other. But because it happened 2000 years or more ago and they see it in the bible it must be true and they accept it wildly and blindly - and yet the same things happening now.


Sheila's mother:
They'll say it's not the same thing...


Ena:
I mean, for instance, if you were to tell some people that Jesus told fortunes they’d be horrified. But he did. He told the woman at the well her fortune, her past and some of her future.


Sheila's mother:
They persecute people now don’t they?


Ena:
And if Christ hadn’t appeared to the disciples in the upper room and to others at varying times, there would have been no Christianity.


2nd Male Sitter:

True.


Ena:
My dear, if you can’t make...well no-one can make anyone do anything really.


2nd Male Sitter:
No.


Sheila's mother:
No.


Ena:
One must leave it entirely to them. If they don’t want to know, well eventually they will find out for themselves, sooner or later. But of course, if they were to understand and assimilate this, to some extent, it certainly could help them and it could change them, I would have thought. And in any case, if you are in a position of having lost, as the world terms it, someone that you love very much, the realisation that they’re not dead, they’re near you watching over you, helping you and that you can under certain conditions communicate...


But there again, you don’t have to come to spiritualists and mediums. I would have thought the evidence, quite apart from spiritualists and mediums, was enormous. Various souls at various times have appeared to people. Millions of instances, I’d have thought, which prove that there must be something, even if people don’t fully understand it. I think a lot of people are afraid.


1st Male Sitter:
But if we want to get in touch with you the only way we can do it is come and see Mr Flint.


Ena:
Yes, that’s true. But it doesn't alter the fact that under certain conditions, I might be able to come to you and I might be able to do something that would make you sit up and say, 'my God, what's that?'


Sheila:
I wish you could, you would, I...


Ena:
I mean, for instance, supposing...I don’t say I am going to do it and not saying I can necessarily do it, but it is possible. It has happened. And some people, on certain occasions, have been able to do certain material, factual things that have absolutely convinced the person concerned who’s witnessed it, of the reality of something happening.


I mean, for instance, now supposing for argument's sake, you were sitting in your office and I were to come into your office and I were to pick up a folder and throw it across the room in broad daylight - I would have thought that would make some of you sit up and take notice...


1st Male Sitter:
It would certainly make me sit up with a start, but it wouldn’t get your message across.


Ena:
No, it wouldn’t get my message, but it would make somebody...I mean this poltergeist business - I've been very interested in this and I’ve wondered if I might develop into becoming one.


[Loud laughter]


1st Male Sitter:
Is that a serious thought or are you...


Ena:
I am being serious.


1st Male Sitter:
You're being serious?


Ena:
Because I think it would be marvellous if temporarily or at least for a spell, I could come, for instance, to your homes and I could do something unusual; pick up a vase and...


1st Male Sitter:
Smash it!


Mac:
But you can’t be [unintelligible] can you?


Ena:
Oh it's possible...it is possible, under certain conditions. I wouldn’t break the vase if I could help it. But if I could do something to attract attention, to let you know that I was present...


Mac:
You stopped the clocks twice.


Ena:
Yes, I’ve done silly things...simple things, but...I want to do something tangible.


[Laughter]


Mac:
She probably will.


Sheila:
If you want to do it Ena, why can’t you do it?


Ena:
Well my dear, it's...it’s not as easy as that. You see, I told you earlier that if a person thinks, concentrates his or her thoughts on whatever it is, it becomes a reality. This is true under natural, normal conditions, but the point is that we are dealing...I’d have to be dealing with certain material conditions which I'm no longer, well, in tune with, exactly.


But the point is, that I could possibly - and this has happened and does happen - even for a brief moment or two, get into the conditions sufficiently, that it could be material to me, and then I could presumably...this is what the poltergeists...or people do who specialise I suppose, I don’t know if they specialise, but they do it.


If I could do it, I would. It's being able to become tangible or to utilise some sort of tangible force that’s in harmony with your conditions, to be able to move objects or do something at least to attract attention. I mean for instance...


1st Male Sitter:
But once you’ve attracted attention what do you want someone to do? I mean what...


Ena:
Well, I suppose in the initial stages it's to let them know there's some presence there and then, possibly, to make contact with us in some way, shape or form. Either by sitting, uh, with a table...and now that's an interesting thing; there's no reason why I or others shouldn’t be able to contact you by table tilting, as you...or messages through the table or perhaps through automatic writing.


1st Male Sitter:
Automatic writing, is that easier?


Ena:
Well I mean, the point is, that you get a pencil and you get a paper and you hold it lightly in your hand and don’t make any effort, of course, of your own whatsoever and just let us try. Let, for instance, myself...let me try to write through your hand.


Sheila:
You can get through to us in thought can't you, because I'm sure on occasions...


Ena:
Oh, you can get confusion. I think this is the problem with things like automatic writing or table. There may be times when we lose contact and you take over, unconsciously or subconsciously...


1st Male Sitter:
I mean, what do you think of that game 'Planchette', where you put the glass…


Ena:
Oh, that thing with the pencil stuck in the middle and....or do you mean the thing...


1st Male Sitter:
No, no, you've a glass in the middle and it runs around to all the letters on the alphabet...


Ena:
Well, this could...I believe that all these things are worth experimenting with, but of course, you have to be sure that it is not yourself doing it.


1st Male Sitter:
Yes. Or one of the crowd.


Sheila's Mother:
Yes Ena,
could it be dangerous?


Ena:
Well it could be, if you sat, I suppose, as a joke, but if you’re sitting seriously and you offer a little prayer for protection and you send out your thoughts to myself and others to be present, and then I don’t think there's any danger.

[Break in recording]

...and if you receive nonsense then obviously give it up. Because either you are subconsciously affecting it, or you are being influenced by some mischievous entity.


Sheila's Mother:
This is what I would...


Ena:
I think you have to be rational about it and sensible and you know…


Sheila's Mother:
[unintelligible]


1st Male Sitter:
You don’t think we could be...get possessed?


Ena:
No, I don’t think so. I think you'd have to be...like will attract like you know and I think this is true if people [unintelligible] on a material level and only anticipate things on that line of thought, they'll get it.


Female Sitter:
Mmm, mmm.


Ena:
Oh dear, I have talked a long time.


Sheila:
No, [unintelligible]...


2nd Male Sitter:
Ena, tell me have you ever met Estelle Roberts or Red Cloud?


Ena:
Oh yes, I know who you mean.


2nd Male Sitter:
Yes.


Ena:
Um...


2nd Male Sitter:
Great Power is no longer operating.


Ena:
No, I think a lot of these souls who make a point of working through an instrument or with an instrument during their Earthly lifetime, when that Earthly lifetime's work is finished, the guide or entity or soul enters into their own condition and invariably, although not always, their work is finished, from the material level anyway.


2nd Male Sitter:

Yes.


Ena:
Why, why did you ask that?


2nd Male Sitter:
I am just completed reading her book...


Ena:
Oh.


2nd Male Sitter:
Fifty...Sixty years a Medium.*


1st Male Sitter:
So Mickey’s work will be finished when...


Ena:
I assume so, I don’t know.


Female Sitters:
Oh I say...[Laughter]


1st Male Sitter:
Is that...is that...is that what you're suggesting?


Ena:
I think it’s possible. I don’t know for certain.


1st Male Sitter:
He’ll go onto greater things or...


Ena:
I suppose so.
How are you getting on in your work?


1st Male Sitter:
Sorry, is that question addressed to me?


Ena:
Yes dear.


1st Male Sitter:
Yes, oh, I hope well I think, yes. It’s hard going at the moment. On a material plane, a very material plane, the market's against me, but...


Ena:
You mean selling houses?


1st Male Sitter:
No. I...because I don’t deal with houses, but factories and investments and properties and that sort of thing…


Ena:
I know dear, I wish things could be different for you. [Sighs]


Sheila:
I expect they will resolve themselves one day.


Ena:
My dear, it will. [Sighs] I'm afraid the powers going or whatever. Oh dear...


All Sitters:
Goodbye Ena...thank you so very much...it was wonderful to hear...


Mickey:
She...she...she was a most marvellous lady. She really is a marvellous woman and I think she’d be a wonderful speaker and all that. There’s no doubt about it she knows her onions.


[Laughter]


Mickey:
Now everyone sends their love, but she’s taken all the power. I can’t hold on.


Sheila:
Oh, Mickey give our love to all the people there.


Mickey:
Bye-bye.


All Sitters:
Goodbye Mickey...


Mickey:
I hope you’ll bring the children again.


Female Sitters:
Yes...we’ll bring the children again.


Mickey:
I like that young fella.


[Laughter]


Sheila's Mother:
Has he gone?


Female Sitters
:
Goodbye...goodbye...goodbye...


Flint:

That was extraordinary. Just the one communicator. She took up all the…


Sheila:

She was very strong, wasn’t she?


Flint:

Absolutely marvellous really, she really was, because she was so informative.


Sheila:

Do you often get people coming through like that Mr Flint?


Flint:

No. I mean, apart from a few people who have been coming through for years and are good communicators because of their experience. But I can’t remember the last time when I had a sitting where somebody came, like that, who hadn’t been over there, presumably, all that long and just took the whole thing over.



END OF RECORDING


This transcript was kindly created for the Flint Trust by Karyn Jarvie - August 2017


*
Fifty Years a Medium  =  the autobiography of Estelle Roberts.